I have been lurking here for several months, and while I am not the
alcoholic,
I have found your comments enlightening and encouraging. I am
struggling to understand,
and make some sort of sense of it all. And, failing that, perhaps reach
a sense of peace
and serenity for myself.

I have tried Al-Anon, and found them useless. I have tried reading,
meditating, yoga, widening my circle of friends, detachment,
involvement... you name it, I've given
it a go over the past few years. My husband licked this problem once,
and stayed sober for over 15 years.

Then, 5 years ago, for who knows what reason, he surrendered again. It
has been a long fight,
but I think we are on the road back again. He entered a long term
treatment program, and will be
returning home at the end of this month. He has been home several
weekends, but as the time approaches,
I am feeling uncertain as to how to regain "our" life together. How do
I support his efforts?

I have no desire to return to the power struggles - I have no chance of
ever winning against the booze.
He says the desire to drink is no longer a problem. For this I am
profoundly grateful.
I know about the "honeymoon" period when he first comes out of
treatment... we have been through this
several times in the past several years. The difference this time is
not only the length of time that
he has been away from home, but I have changed as well. This was truly
his last chance with me.
I had reached a point where I was no longer able to watch helplessly as
he killed himself one day at a time
in front of me.

It was his choice to enter treatment, I had told him after the last
rehab experience that "I" would never
again put him in any hospital. That choice was his, alone...but he must
realize that I had choices to make
as well. The man that I love has returned, and I want "him" to
stay.

There are plenty of problems waiting for him when he does return home to
stay - extended family turmoil,
financial, etc. I am sure you all know the drill. But he is my main
concern, and if all is right with us,
the rest will settle as it will. I have no control over how others think
and react, and have no desire to.

So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What is my
place?
How do I support and encourage without being intrusive? What does he
need from me now?

Kai

> So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What is my
> place?
> How do I support and encourage without being intrusive? What does
he
> need from me now?
>
> Kai

perhaps give ALANON another try?
maybe therapy with an ADDICTIONS counselor?

" <rosie>" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:749Tb.9018$2h.2708@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> maybe therapy with an ADDICTIONS counselor?
>
Another backhanded solicitation for your unliscenced "practice".

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:20:59 -0500, Kai <bgale@ccm.tdsnet.com> wrote:

>There are plenty of problems waiting for him when he does return home to
>stay - extended family turmoil, financial, etc. I am sure you all know the
>drill. But he is my main concern, and if all is right with us, the rest will
>settle as it will. I have no control over how others think and react, and
>have no desire to.

The important question is not "do I have a desire to drink today?",
but rather "what am I going to do to maintain a healthy perspective?"
If hubby gets out of treatment and carries on doing exactly the same
things as before, the eventual outcome is likely to be the same. He
needs to keep his recovery alive, a day at a time. That needs to be
his primary responsibility, above bills or anything else. Not always
convenient, but neither is kidney dialysis. Only time can actually
tell whether this is the reality.

>So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What is my
>place?
>How do I support and encourage without being intrusive? What does he
>need from me now?

Your job is to look after you. Always try to say what you mean, and
mean what you say.

--
Blue Moon

>...................... He
> needs to keep his recovery alive, a day at a time. That needs to
be
> his primary responsibility, above bills or anything else. Not
always
> convenient, but neither is kidney dialysis.



>
> Your job is to look after you.

great post BM!

[On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:20:59 -0500, Kai
<bgale@ccm.tdsnet.com> wrote:]

> So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What
> is my place? How do I support and encourage without being
> intrusive? What does he need from me now?

Kai, this won't be encouraging, but I'll say it anyway:

First, I think you should be clear to him about the things
you said to us above. IE, that you love him and want to
stay with him, but that you *will* leave if the drinking
resumes. That you want to work together with him thru the
various problems you may have.

What I mean is that I think you should have a blunt,
frank, but as pleasant as possible conversation with him.
Tell him where you are. This is not a threat, it is
simply a fact that he needs to recognize. Do this when
the kids aren't around. Make sure he believes you. Make
sure you believe yourself. In the end, it should be a
loving conversation.

Second, I would make a realistic contingency plan for
yourself and the kids. The odds are against him
permanently getting off the booze. I have seen various
statistics, and I have experienced the fight myself. The
stat I have seen the most is that only about 17% of people
who enter AA stay sober. Who knows if that is accurate?
Nobody.

But it is clear that you need to have a plan that covers
your rear-end if things go bad again. Not a bluff, but
something you can and will do. Determination.

This may include taking some practical steps, like
possibly seeing an attorney and separating yourself from
him financially as much as possible.

I realize that isn't nice, but one of the first things
they taught us in the EMT training class I started to
attend was that your first priority has to be to look out
for yourself. You can't help anyone else when you are
impaired. We alcoholics tend to impair the people around
us. Don't let yourself get caught up in that.

Third, do your best to change your daily routines. I am
speaking mostly from myself here, but I do believe the
daily routines play a part in the other things we do.
Come home, fix a drink. It gets to be a habit.

Make that, come home and go for a walk. Whatever.
Something that breaks the chain of our behaviors. It
might be something very small.

Good luck!

--
Harry

EXCELLENT ADVISE HARRY!

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
groans
more loudly than an empty stomach.
...............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/










"The Other Harry" <hcdotme@DELETEntelos.net> wrote in message
news:0ifq10hjh0bv56j7vlls42l7ccqd0v85lk@4ax.com...
> [On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:20:59 -0500, Kai
> <bgale@ccm.tdsnet.com> wrote:]
>
> > So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What
> > is my place? How do I support and encourage without being
> > intrusive? What does he need from me now?
>
> Kai, this won't be encouraging, but I'll say it anyway:
>
> First, I think you should be clear to him about the things
> you said to us above. IE, that you love him and want to
> stay with him, but that you *will* leave if the drinking
> resumes. That you want to work together with him thru the
> various problems you may have.
>
> What I mean is that I think you should have a blunt,
> frank, but as pleasant as possible conversation with him.
> Tell him where you are. This is not a threat, it is
> simply a fact that he needs to recognize. Do this when
> the kids aren't around. Make sure he believes you. Make
> sure you believe yourself. In the end, it should be a
> loving conversation.
>
> Second, I would make a realistic contingency plan for
> yourself and the kids. The odds are against him
> permanently getting off the booze. I have seen various
> statistics, and I have experienced the fight myself. The
> stat I have seen the most is that only about 17% of people
> who enter AA stay sober. Who knows if that is accurate?
> Nobody.
>
> But it is clear that you need to have a plan that covers
> your rear-end if things go bad again. Not a bluff, but
> something you can and will do. Determination.
>
> This may include taking some practical steps, like
> possibly seeing an attorney and separating yourself from
> him financially as much as possible.
>
> I realize that isn't nice, but one of the first things
> they taught us in the EMT training class I started to
> attend was that your first priority has to be to look out
> for yourself. You can't help anyone else when you are
> impaired. We alcoholics tend to impair the people around
> us. Don't let yourself get caught up in that.
>
> Third, do your best to change your daily routines. I am
> speaking mostly from myself here, but I do believe the
> daily routines play a part in the other things we do.
> Come home, fix a drink. It gets to be a habit.
>
> Make that, come home and go for a walk. Whatever.
> Something that breaks the chain of our behaviors. It
> might be something very small.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> Harry

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:47:36 -0500,
The Other Harry <hcdotme@DELETEntelos.net> wrote:

> [On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:20:59 -0500, Kai
><bgale@ccm.tdsnet.com> wrote:]
>
>> So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What
>> is my place? How do I support and encourage without being
>> intrusive? What does he need from me now?
>
> What I mean is that I think you should have a blunt,
> frank, but as pleasant as possible conversation with him.

I agree. I'd also recommend doing this in the morning, or rather *not*
after work, supper, getting the kids in bed (or whatever it is for you).
My personal experience is that is just a bad time to have serious
discussions.

> Third, do your best to change your daily routines.

Yeah. That's what I think I'm finding out also. Easier said than done,
but I think it's true.

--
AB5DB9CC

Dear Kai,

>What do I do?

You need to take care of yourself and simply allow him to go to as many AA
meeting as possible and READ chapter eight, "To Wives" in the Big Book
(Alcoholics Anonymous).



>What is my place?

Just to listen to him, go to open discussion meeting, conventions, and
speaker meetings with him if you want, but there is nothing else you can do
for HIM.





>How do I support and encourage without being intrusive?

You said you have " tried Al-Anon and found them useless." I bet you have
heard your husband say the same thing about AA, but these two programs are
your only real choice of having a life like you desire with your husband.

Did you HONESTLY work through the steps with a Al-Anon sponsor? Help other
Al-Anon's that needed help?

Do you really think that you don't have a problem that needs attention? You
are the sober person who decided to tolerate the abuse this man could give
you. You are sicker than your husband in many ways and you need someone to
help you see this.

You need to finally learn how to take care of yourself instead of your
alcoholic.

Did you happen to notice that all of your questions are about what you can
do for HIM?

Wake up woman! Go back to Al-Anon, be open and honest, LISTEN to their
advice and put it into ACTION.

OR

You can keep doing the same things and keep getting the same bad results.
Its your life, live it.

Many prayers for you both,

Julie




"Kai" <bgale@ccm.tdsnet.com> wrote in message
news:401D195B.2FFF14B@ccm.tdsnet.com...
> I have been lurking here for several months, and while I am not the
> alcoholic,
> I have found your comments enlightening and encouraging. I am
> struggling to understand,
> and make some sort of sense of it all. And, failing that, perhaps reach
> a sense of peace
> and serenity for myself.
>
> I have tried Al-Anon, and found them useless. I have tried reading,
> meditating, yoga, widening my circle of friends, detachment,
> involvement... you name it, I've given
> it a go over the past few years. My husband licked this problem once,
> and stayed sober for over 15 years.
>
> Then, 5 years ago, for who knows what reason, he surrendered again. It
> has been a long fight,
> but I think we are on the road back again. He entered a long term
> treatment program, and will be
> returning home at the end of this month. He has been home several
> weekends, but as the time approaches,
> I am feeling uncertain as to how to regain "our" life together. How do
> I support his efforts?
>
> I have no desire to return to the power struggles - I have no chance of
> ever winning against the booze.
> He says the desire to drink is no longer a problem. For this I am
> profoundly grateful.
> I know about the "honeymoon" period when he first comes out of
> treatment... we have been through this
> several times in the past several years. The difference this time is
> not only the length of time that
> he has been away from home, but I have changed as well. This was truly
> his last chance with me.
> I had reached a point where I was no longer able to watch helplessly as
> he killed himself one day at a time
> in front of me.
>
> It was his choice to enter treatment, I had told him after the last
> rehab experience that "I" would never
> again put him in any hospital. That choice was his, alone...but he must
> realize that I had choices to make
> as well. The man that I love has returned, and I want "him" to
> stay.
>
> There are plenty of problems waiting for him when he does return home to
> stay - extended family turmoil,
> financial, etc. I am sure you all know the drill. But he is my main
> concern, and if all is right with us,
> the rest will settle as it will. I have no control over how others think
> and react, and have no desire to.
>
> So I am asking you, who have been there. What do I do? What is my
> place?
> How do I support and encourage without being intrusive? What does he
> need from me now?
>
> Kai

I thank you all for your thoughts. I agree with your
main idea, that being I need to take care of myself
first...and that is what I have been doing for the past
year. Perhaps I should have been clearer in expressing
that point. I have made profound changes in my life,
including therapy.

I do not depend on my husband to define my existence,
rather to enrich my life. Each member of a team must
pull their own weight, yet function together to move
forward. This was the point of my request. I understand
that I am powerless over the disease, that is his fight
alone. In fact, I had left our home, with a plan, and
returned to pack a few final items and pick up my dog
when this final entry into rehab occurred. He had already
left, and checked himself in.

I have continued on with my life, while he has been gone
and life does go on - and I feel that while he is making
an honest and serious attempt to improve his (and our)
life together - I wish to do the same.

My eyes are unfortunately wide open as to the risks and
hazards ahead.. I have lived them before. But, I will
state that he has NEVER before approached the problem
with such seriousness and courage.

As I said before, I am changed - hopefully for the
better, and have no desire whatsoever to return to the
way things were. He was NEVER abusive towards me, in the
classic sense. It was witnessing self-abuse that was torturing
me. I made no excuses, and told no lies to protect him.
My friends and family were fully aware of what was going on
and I had their full support. I was never isolated.

It took me a full year to prepare myself for the action I
eventually took...and thank you Harry, for pointing that
out. As they say before take off, make sure your mask is
in place before trying to help others. I prepared for the
worst, financially, physically and emotionally - while hoping
for the best.

Fortunately, this time around, our son is grown and on his
own, and has been a rock for me. We have been married for
23 years, and retirement is a major challenge approaching
us now.

I did not wish to appear needy and pleading for answers for questions
that obviously have no definitive answers, I was merely
asking for a different perspective from uninvolved yet
knowledgeable individuals. I never felt that honoring my vow to him to
live in sickness and health made me a sick twisted person, as long
as I did not succumb to sickness myself.

I wish to be his partner in life, not his caretaker.


Thanks again.

Kai