Hi all,

I'm having a rough day today and just was curious as to any suggestions on
dealing with it.

My ex-girlfriend's New Years Eve resolution was to terminate our
relationship. I have been wanting to remain friends and after talking with
her, I understand why people don't after a breakup. The pain of rejection
and resentments are tough. I'm having trouble forgiving myself for the
mistakes I made and her lack of support when I needed it. Actually, I'm
more upset with myself for holding onto the hope that we would get back
together and having that hope smashed to pieces.

We were together 12 years and I'm pretty down. I understand that it is
normal to grieve the loss. I'm not even interested in drinking to escape it
because I must go through it to get past it. Being unwilling to discuss
problems and choosing to drink got me here. Now, I just need to find a way
to get out of the dark place my mind is. It doesn't hurt as bad as when my
father died yet the fact that I am being left by someone that "loved" me is
harder to deal with.

Thanks to all for your support...

Kirk S. <twelve days and all is not well in mudville...>

P.S. Thanks for listening to me whine... I can't choose to stay this way
very long, I can't stand it. It is unproductive and unhealthy.

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aRCSb.20069$M81.18408@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> I can't choose to stay this way
> very long, I can't stand it. It is unproductive and unhealthy.
>

Perhaps rational recovery is only suitable for really rational people.

Bob

kirk,
have you found a support group that you like?
either FACE TO FACE, or email?
(i think i read that you don't like AA?)

a group at this time could probably be a great help to you!
i am sorry that you are in this much pain, and of course, you are
right to note that it is probably grieving that you are doing.

(((((((((((((kirk))))))))))))))))))))))

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
groans
more loudly than an empty stomach.
...............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt

http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/










"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aRCSb.20069$M81.18408@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm having a rough day today and just was curious as to any
suggestions on
> dealing with it.
>
> My ex-girlfriend's New Years Eve resolution was to terminate our
> relationship. I have been wanting to remain friends and after
talking with
> her, I understand why people don't after a breakup. The pain of
rejection
> and resentments are tough. I'm having trouble forgiving myself
for the
> mistakes I made and her lack of support when I needed it.
Actually, I'm
> more upset with myself for holding onto the hope that we would get
back
> together and having that hope smashed to pieces.
>
> We were together 12 years and I'm pretty down. I understand that
it is
> normal to grieve the loss. I'm not even interested in drinking to
escape it
> because I must go through it to get past it. Being unwilling to
discuss
> problems and choosing to drink got me here. Now, I just need to
find a way
> to get out of the dark place my mind is. It doesn't hurt as bad
as when my
> father died yet the fact that I am being left by someone that
"loved" me is
> harder to deal with.
>
> Thanks to all for your support...
>
> Kirk S. <twelve days and all is not well in mudville...>
>
> P.S. Thanks for listening to me whine... I can't choose to stay
this way
> very long, I can't stand it. It is unproductive and unhealthy.
>
>

Bob,

Being rational has nothing to do with feelings. I'm trying to figure out
some constructive behaviors to apply my feelings to. My initial thought is
to behave like a child, call her up and scream at her. That is not
acceptable or productive.

Oh yeah, how is your suggestion helpfull? Actually, it got me out of the
mood long enough to write down what I'm feeling. And I'm not placing the
blame outside myself so I just have to figure out how to Dump it...

Besides Rational Recovery only deals with feelings of drinking. I drank to
avoid feeling bad (and because I LOVE it) and now I'm using my rational,
logical brain to deal with the.

Time is the big healer...

Kirk S. <twelve days and mighty Casey has struck out...>
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bveust$rk7l5$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:aRCSb.20069$M81.18408@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > I can't choose to stay this way
> > very long, I can't stand it. It is unproductive and unhealthy.
> >
>
> Perhaps rational recovery is only suitable for really rational people.
>
> Bob
>
>

Rosie,

Thanks for the hug... I've got plenty of books to read and projects to keep
me busy. I must like misery or I would choose to do something better to
deal with the feeling.

Again, the problem of looking at things with logic and reason means that I
can't just sit an wallow in a sea of pity.

I just passed up a chance to go to a friends house and play pool, ping pong
and do shots, pot and beer.

The replies are just what I needed, thanks!

Kirk S. <12 days - glad to be not drinking, being sober will come later>
" <rosie>" <readandpostTAKETHISOUT@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fcDSb.5623$sd.3906@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> kirk,
> have you found a support group that you like?
> either FACE TO FACE, or email?
> (i think i read that you don't like AA?)
>
> a group at this time could probably be a great help to you!
> i am sorry that you are in this much pain, and of course, you are
> right to note that it is probably grieving that you are doing.
>
> (((((((((((((kirk))))))))))))))))))))))
>
> --
> read and post daily, it works!
> rosie
>
> It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often
> groans
> more loudly than an empty stomach.
> ..............................Franklin Delano Roosevelt
>
> http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:aRCSb.20069$M81.18408@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm having a rough day today and just was curious as to any
> suggestions on
> > dealing with it.
> >
> > My ex-girlfriend's New Years Eve resolution was to terminate our
> > relationship. I have been wanting to remain friends and after
> talking with
> > her, I understand why people don't after a breakup. The pain of
> rejection
> > and resentments are tough. I'm having trouble forgiving myself
> for the
> > mistakes I made and her lack of support when I needed it.
> Actually, I'm
> > more upset with myself for holding onto the hope that we would get
> back
> > together and having that hope smashed to pieces.
> >
> > We were together 12 years and I'm pretty down. I understand that
> it is
> > normal to grieve the loss. I'm not even interested in drinking to
> escape it
> > because I must go through it to get past it. Being unwilling to
> discuss
> > problems and choosing to drink got me here. Now, I just need to
> find a way
> > to get out of the dark place my mind is. It doesn't hurt as bad
> as when my
> > father died yet the fact that I am being left by someone that
> "loved" me is
> > harder to deal with.
> >
> > Thanks to all for your support...
> >
> > Kirk S. <twelve days and all is not well in mudville...>
> >
> > P.S. Thanks for listening to me whine... I can't choose to stay
> this way
> > very long, I can't stand it. It is unproductive and unhealthy.
> >
> >
>
>

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RnDSb.20073$M81.11875@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

>
> Being rational has nothing to do with feelings.

Who told you that?

> Besides Rational Recovery only deals with feelings of drinking.

Oh, you've allowed an exception to your rule, that feelings of drinking are
rational?

How then is having a rough day an appropriate topic for this newsgroup?

Bob

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bvf258$s31st$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:RnDSb.20073$M81.11875@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >
> > Being rational has nothing to do with feelings.
>
> Who told you that?
>
> > Besides Rational Recovery only deals with feelings of drinking.
>
> Oh, you've allowed an exception to your rule, that feelings of drinking
are
> rational?

How do you get that? Feelings are simply feelings, making a rational choice
as to how you deal with them is my point. There is nothing rational about
feelings; good, bad, right or wrong doesn't apply. The chosen behavior has
the good, bad, right or wrong distinction. Actually, I misworded it. It
should have been thoughts of drinking. I don't believe there is an actual
'feeling' for drinking. It is a behavior chosen based upon feelings.

>
> How then is having a rough day an appropriate topic for this newsgroup?

I guess it isn't. You are free to stop responding whenever you wish. If
you want me to leave, just ask and I'll ignore you...

Thanks again... This day is looking up.

Kirk S. <12 days and all is well, sorta>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>

On - Sat, Jan 31, 2004, 1:18am (EST+5) kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com
(Kirk*S) wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out some constructive
> behaviors to apply my feelings to. My initial
> thought is to behave like a child, call her up
> and scream at her. That is not acceptable or
> productive.

That would be an example of addictive thinking, externalizing needs,
being unable to self-soothe.

Here's an excerpt quote and link below:


Soothing yourself begins with:

1- A decision to STOP all self-harm and self-abuse. This occurs
simultaneously with the realization/awareness that you are worthy of
loving yourself and of being loved and of loving others.

2- A willingness to do the work.

3- A determination to feel YOUR feelings.

4- Having reached the place where staying the same hurts more (and is
more fear-producing) than the changes that you need to make.

5- The ability to provide yourself with safety in the middle of the pain
(to be able to *KNOW* that the pain will not kill you and that it is
your pain and not some outside force/monster outside of you that has
control over you)

6- As you get to number six here after you've achieved 1-5 you will
begin to believe in yourself and find new ability to care for yourself.
Enter -- wanting to take care, self-care and not wanting to add to your
pain in anyway anymore.
7- An understanding of your wounded inner child and how much that child
needs you to set new, healthy limits and be a loving parent to him/her.
Nurturing this relationship with your inner child will build trust
within yourself as you continue to identify more who you are.

8- The realization/understanding that in order to have and maintain
healthy (unenmeshed) relationships it is vital that you take care of
your own needs and especially your own emotional needs.

9- A desire and readiness to let the past go and to work at living in
the here and now.

10- A willingness to "OWN" your own stuff. You need to learn how to own
your own feelings, think your own thoughts, be your own person, to not
blame others for what you feel, or what happens to you.

11- Taking personal responsibility for yourself always! Being an adult.

12- Setting and maintaining boundaries and responsibly holding those
boundaries. Differientiating who you are from who others are. Learning
to be inner-directed and not outer-directed. Validate yourself as
opposed to looking to others to tell you that you are okay.
What does one do to soothe themselves?

Soothing oneself may take on many different forms/activities for many
different people. The main thing about self-soothing, (whether you are
just beginning to experiment with or whether you are clearly past
self-injuring yourself etc) is that you don't consider self-harm or
acting out an option. Whether there are impluses to self-harm or to act
out or not you make a clear choice to NOT go there.

Once you have made the decision that you are not going to self-injure or
act out or "use" any of the many other "borderline" things one can do to
avoid self responsibility soothing yourself means essentially:

NOT HARMING YOURSELF

NOT ACTING OUT

NOT DOING WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET INSTANT GRATIFICATION

LEARNING TO ACCEPT A DELAY OR LACK OF GRATIFICATION BEING KIND TO
YOURSELF

BEING UNDERSTANDING TO YOURSELF

BEING PATIENT WITH YOURSELF

LETING GO OF YOUR UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS OF OTHERS

LETTING GO OF EXPECTATIONS (AT ALL) OF OTHERS

LETTING GO OF TRYING TO CONTROL WHAT YOU FEEL OR DON'T FEEL THROUGH
TRYING TO CONTROL OR MANIPULATE OTHERS

DO NOT PUNISH OTHERS FOR THE MISTAKES (WRONG-DOINGS) OF PEOPLE IN YOUR
PAST

LEARN TO TRUST YOURSELF

DO NOT DEVALUE OR BE CRITICAL OF OTHERS OR YOURSELF

TAKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOW/WHAT YOU FEEL

BEING ABLE TO BE ALONE

LEARNING TO GIVE AND TAKE

LEARNING THAT IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE
INTIMACY YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GIVE SPACE AND TAKE SPACE

SURRENDER CONTROL AND LEARN TO GO WITH THE FLOW

TELL THE TRUTH -- LIVE THE TRUTH

BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF IF YOU BACKSLIDE OR MAKE A MISTAKE

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...sonality/24650

"Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jqESb.4653$2h.2286@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bvf258$s31st$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Kirk S" <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:RnDSb.20073$M81.11875@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >
> > >
> > > Being rational has nothing to do with feelings.
> >
> > Who told you that?
> >
> > > Besides Rational Recovery only deals with feelings of drinking.
> >
> > Oh, you've allowed an exception to your rule, that feelings of drinking
> are
> > rational?
>
> How do you get that?

Just tweaking the imperfections of communication.

>Feelings are simply feelings, making a rational choice
> as to how you deal with them is my point.

My point is that rational choice is not an option for most "real"
alcoholics.

>There is nothing rational about
> feelings; good, bad, right or wrong doesn't apply. The chosen behavior
has
> the good, bad, right or wrong distinction.

or just different, as distinct from "moral" benchmarks.

>Actually, I misworded it. It
> should have been thoughts of drinking. I don't believe there is an actual
> 'feeling' for drinking. It is a behavior chosen based upon feelings.


Arguably, there is an actual feeling that urges drinking, it's called
craving, common to all real alcoholics, and choice is not an option.

Bob

>
> >
> > How then is having a rough day an appropriate topic for this newsgroup?
>
> I guess it isn't. You are free to stop responding whenever you wish. If
> you want me to leave, just ask and I'll ignore you...
>
> Thanks again... This day is looking up.
>
> Kirk S. <12 days and all is well, sorta>
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bvf4va$s2lk1$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...

<snip>

> Just tweaking the imperfections of communication.

Communication skills aren't my strength...
>
> >Feelings are simply feelings, making a rational choice
> > as to how you deal with them is my point.
>
> My point is that rational choice is not an option for most "real"
> alcoholics.

Can you define a *real* alcoholic? I really believe I fit. Choosing to
ignore the facts brought my right back to where I was fifteen years ago.
>
> >There is nothing rational about
> > feelings; good, bad, right or wrong doesn't apply. The chosen behavior
> has
> > the good, bad, right or wrong distinction.
>
> or just different, as distinct from "moral" benchmarks.

I tried to keep "morality" out of it. Most of us have a sense of what is
right and what is wrong.
>
> >Actually, I misworded it. It
> > should have been thoughts of drinking. I don't believe there is an
actual
> > 'feeling' for drinking. It is a behavior chosen based upon feelings.
>
>
> Arguably, there is an actual feeling that urges drinking, it's called
> craving, common to all real alcoholics, and choice is not an option.

Please explain how choice is not an option. A craving cannot move your hand
or make you go get your drug of choice. I've never really had a physical
compulsion to drink, more of a mental one to escape myself. I remember
quitting smoking and I can recall a physical need to smoke. I crave M&Ms
too however if I don't buy them, I won't eat them.
>
> Bob

I'm working on keeping an open mind here... Can you tell me where this is
leading or do I have to wait?

Kirk S.