On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:35:18 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
<debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:

>There are many stages of trying to come to terms with having manic
>depression.

Of course. I wouldn't want to devalue that process. However, as this
forum is specifically about alcoholism, discussion on manic depression
(including the medical advice I see you've started to offer) is off
topic. The only issue of relevance is the diagnosis so soon after
quitting drinking.

If I were to start discussing my asthma, or cat allergies, or anything
else that's not directly related to drinking or alcoholism, I would
expect the same kind of feedback. If I want to talk about cat
allergies, I'll go to a cat allergy newsgroup.

--
Blue Moon

Notice that I did include the advice to consult a pdoc before any changes in
medication........................read the whole thing before jumping down
anybodies throat.
In many cases alcoholism and manic depression are tied together because a
sufferer will try to use drink/drugs to try and self medicate. Jonathon has
similar problems to myself in this way. I had manic depression for many
years without knowing (all I knew was my life was crazy) I gradually
started to use alcohol as a means to get some sleep. When you are manic you
maybe only sleep 1 -2 hours a night for maybe several weeks. The mind is
active but the body becomes totally exhausted. Alcohol was my way of
getting some sleep, unfortuanately by the time I was diagnosed with MD I was
hooked to alcohol. So I, like everyone else here had to deal with getting
and staying sober.

Because they are tied together there are now a lot of duel diagnosis CPNs
working in the mental health sector.
If I had asthma, or cat allergies(which I don't) I would not discuss these
here as they would be totally irrelevant to an addiction to alcohol. Unless
of course they were making me so pissed off that I got pissed.

If jonathon, as a newly diagnosed bi-polar posts something that I have had
experience with then I will continue to answer. If you don't like it then
block me on your computer.....The fact that you can't read my posts will be
totally irrelevant to my life

debs

--
Illegitimi non Carborundum
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:351b7e41c1b04bdc799dfd860d17232e@free.teranew s.com...
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:35:18 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
> <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >There are many stages of trying to come to terms with having manic
> >depression.
>
> Of course. I wouldn't want to devalue that process. However, as this
> forum is specifically about alcoholism, discussion on manic depression
> (including the medical advice I see you've started to offer) is off
> topic. The only issue of relevance is the diagnosis so soon after
> quitting drinking.
>
> If I were to start discussing my asthma, or cat allergies, or anything
> else that's not directly related to drinking or alcoholism, I would
> expect the same kind of feedback. If I want to talk about cat
> allergies, I'll go to a cat allergy newsgroup.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:10:33 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
<debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:

>In many cases alcoholism and manic depression are tied together

No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are often
linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
alcoholism.

>If jonathon, as a newly diagnosed bi-polar posts something that I have had
>experience with then I will continue to answer. If you don't like it then
>block me on your computer.....The fact that you can't read my posts will be
>totally irrelevant to my life

If you continue to post off-topic material to the newsgroup, you can
expect the feedback from alcoholics to be calling you on the off-topic
nature of your posts.

--
Blue Moon

Oh and shouting down of certain other people in here just for the sake of it
and trying to appear intelligent is not off topic.

--
Illegitimi non Carborundum
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6ad6c8d139dfba02b97ccb81aa4df53@free.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:10:33 +0000 (UTC), "debs"
> <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >In many cases alcoholism and manic depression are tied together
>
> No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are often
> linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
> alcoholism.
>
> >If jonathon, as a newly diagnosed bi-polar posts something that I have
had
> >experience with then I will continue to answer. If you don't like it
then
> >block me on your computer.....The fact that you can't read my posts will
be
> >totally irrelevant to my life
>
> If you continue to post off-topic material to the newsgroup, you can
> expect the feedback from alcoholics to be calling you on the off-topic
> nature of your posts.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

--
Illegitimi non Carborundum
"Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6ad6c8d139dfba02b97ccb81aa4df53@free.teranew s.com...

>
> No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are often
> linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
> alcoholism.

So what you are saying is that if someone posts in here who has been abusing
alcohol and is looking for some support to stop doing this.....they are in
the wrong place.
Are you going to set yourself up as judge and jury about who is an alcoholic
and who is abusing it????
IMHO if someone is desparate enough to post to this group for support then
they should be able to get it. There is a thin line often between abuse and
alcoholism and who is to say who has stepped over this line.
I started off abusing alcohol to get sleep but at some stage I stepped over
the line and found that even with bi-polar meds in place and working well, I
still drank. I got addicted. I needed the buzz sometimes and other times I
drank to forget. And sometimes I went a couple of weeks without a drink and
then drank to reward myself because I fooled myself that I could stop any
time I wanted so just a couple wouldn't hurt. Trouble was one glass was too
much and a bucket full was never enough.

Its not important to me if anyone here feels that I am not an alcoholic 'in
the true sense of the word' I posted for support, which I got from most
people. I've got over six months sobriety now.........not that long, but
enough for me to realise how much better life is without alcohol. And long
enough for me to have been able to put my life back into some sort of order.

debs

"debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bdorc4$d3d$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
>
> --
> Illegitimi non Carborundum
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6ad6c8d139dfba02b97ccb81aa4df53@free.teranew s.com...
>
> >
> > No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are often
> > linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
> > alcoholism.
>
> So what you are saying is that if someone posts in here who has been
abusing
> alcohol and is looking for some support to stop doing this.....they are in
> the wrong place.
> Are you going to set yourself up as judge and jury about who is an
alcoholic
> and who is abusing it????
> IMHO if someone is desparate enough to post to this group for support then
> they should be able to get it. There is a thin line often between abuse
and
> alcoholism and who is to say who has stepped over this line.
> I started off abusing alcohol to get sleep but at some stage I stepped
over
> the line and found that even with bi-polar meds in place and working well,
I
> still drank. I got addicted. I needed the buzz sometimes and other times
I
> drank to forget. And sometimes I went a couple of weeks without a drink
and
> then drank to reward myself because I fooled myself that I could stop any
> time I wanted so just a couple wouldn't hurt. Trouble was one glass was
too
> much and a bucket full was never enough.
>
> Its not important to me if anyone here feels that I am not an alcoholic
'in
> the true sense of the word' I posted for support, which I got from most
> people. I've got over six months sobriety now.........not that long, but
> enough for me to realise how much better life is without alcohol. And
long
> enough for me to have been able to put my life back into some sort of
order.
>
> debs
>

Members of Alcoholics Anonymous are exhorted to decide for themselves as to
the alcoholism, or not of "newcomers" before continuing discourse.
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_92.htm
"If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, "

Furthermore, to gauge the effectiveness of discussion
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_96.htm
"To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other alcoholic
an opportunity to live and be happy. "

Irony is, some claiming some sort of AA credibility ignore that exhortation
completely, while other less fanatical AAers apply it rigidly. Given time
and experience, one often sees all shades in between the two extremes.

I prefer the paradoxical cohesion of anarchy in news and opinion here, but
those who prefer censorship by often paradoxically immoderate "moderators"
can access online discussion forums, eg: AA can be found @
http://www.aa-intergroup.org/ NA @ http://www.naonline.org/ and Al-Anon @
http://www.ola-is.org/

Bob

Thanx for the reply.......I had never read those before......spooky.

Maybe that is why I just could not get into the AA. I don't like being
labelled and I don't like being put into a box.

As I said before I don't know if I was/am an alcoholic. What I do know is
that alcohol caused major problems in my life and stopping drinking was very
difficult. I still have the occassional craving but it is not strong enough
to push me off the wagon. I have also had to decide that alcohol cannot
play any further part in my life. I certainly am not going to spend the
rest of my life worrying if I have done enough to gain 'a real alcoholic'
badge.

debs

--
Illegitimi non Carborundum
"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bdov7m$tjddm$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:bdorc4$d3d$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Illegitimi non Carborundum
> > "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:a6ad6c8d139dfba02b97ccb81aa4df53@free.teranew s.com...
> >
> > >
> > > No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are often
> > > linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
> > > alcoholism.
> >
> > So what you are saying is that if someone posts in here who has been
> abusing
> > alcohol and is looking for some support to stop doing this.....they are
in
> > the wrong place.
> > Are you going to set yourself up as judge and jury about who is an
> alcoholic
> > and who is abusing it????
> > IMHO if someone is desparate enough to post to this group for support
then
> > they should be able to get it. There is a thin line often between abuse
> and
> > alcoholism and who is to say who has stepped over this line.
> > I started off abusing alcohol to get sleep but at some stage I stepped
> over
> > the line and found that even with bi-polar meds in place and working
well,
> I
> > still drank. I got addicted. I needed the buzz sometimes and other
times
> I
> > drank to forget. And sometimes I went a couple of weeks without a drink
> and
> > then drank to reward myself because I fooled myself that I could stop
any
> > time I wanted so just a couple wouldn't hurt. Trouble was one glass was
> too
> > much and a bucket full was never enough.
> >
> > Its not important to me if anyone here feels that I am not an alcoholic
> 'in
> > the true sense of the word' I posted for support, which I got from most
> > people. I've got over six months sobriety now.........not that long,
but
> > enough for me to realise how much better life is without alcohol. And
> long
> > enough for me to have been able to put my life back into some sort of
> order.
> >
> > debs
> >
>
> Members of Alcoholics Anonymous are exhorted to decide for themselves as
to
> the alcoholism, or not of "newcomers" before continuing discourse.
> http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_92.htm
> "If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, "
>
> Furthermore, to gauge the effectiveness of discussion
> http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_96.htm
> "To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other
alcoholic
> an opportunity to live and be happy. "
>
> Irony is, some claiming some sort of AA credibility ignore that
exhortation
> completely, while other less fanatical AAers apply it rigidly. Given time
> and experience, one often sees all shades in between the two extremes.
>
> I prefer the paradoxical cohesion of anarchy in news and opinion here, but
> those who prefer censorship by often paradoxically immoderate "moderators"
> can access online discussion forums, eg: AA can be found @
> http://www.aa-intergroup.org/ NA @ http://www.naonline.org/ and Al-Anon @
> http://www.ola-is.org/
>
> Bob
>
>

Given my own pickings were reposted in this thread, best do my own
nitting;-) More correctly, I should have written " Given time
and experience, one eventually sees all shades"

Bob.
"debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bdp3er$en3$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Thanx for the reply.......I had never read those before......spooky.
>
> Maybe that is why I just could not get into the AA. I don't like being
> labelled and I don't like being put into a box.
>
> As I said before I don't know if I was/am an alcoholic. What I do know is
> that alcohol caused major problems in my life and stopping drinking was
very
> difficult. I still have the occassional craving but it is not strong
enough
> to push me off the wagon. I have also had to decide that alcohol cannot
> play any further part in my life. I certainly am not going to spend the
> rest of my life worrying if I have done enough to gain 'a real alcoholic'
> badge.
>
> debs
>
> --
> Illegitimi non Carborundum
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bdov7m$tjddm$1@ID-49289.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > "debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> > news:bdorc4$d3d$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Illegitimi non Carborundum
> > > "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:a6ad6c8d139dfba02b97ccb81aa4df53@free.teranew s.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are
often
> > > > linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
> > > > alcoholism.
> > >
> > > So what you are saying is that if someone posts in here who has been
> > abusing
> > > alcohol and is looking for some support to stop doing this.....they
are
> in
> > > the wrong place.
> > > Are you going to set yourself up as judge and jury about who is an
> > alcoholic
> > > and who is abusing it????
> > > IMHO if someone is desparate enough to post to this group for support
> then
> > > they should be able to get it. There is a thin line often between
abuse
> > and
> > > alcoholism and who is to say who has stepped over this line.
> > > I started off abusing alcohol to get sleep but at some stage I stepped
> > over
> > > the line and found that even with bi-polar meds in place and working
> well,
> > I
> > > still drank. I got addicted. I needed the buzz sometimes and other
> times
> > I
> > > drank to forget. And sometimes I went a couple of weeks without a
drink
> > and
> > > then drank to reward myself because I fooled myself that I could stop
> any
> > > time I wanted so just a couple wouldn't hurt. Trouble was one glass
was
> > too
> > > much and a bucket full was never enough.
> > >
> > > Its not important to me if anyone here feels that I am not an
alcoholic
> > 'in
> > > the true sense of the word' I posted for support, which I got from
most
> > > people. I've got over six months sobriety now.........not that long,
> but
> > > enough for me to realise how much better life is without alcohol. And
> > long
> > > enough for me to have been able to put my life back into some sort of
> > order.
> > >
> > > debs
> > >
> >
> > Members of Alcoholics Anonymous are exhorted to decide for themselves as
> to
> > the alcoholism, or not of "newcomers" before continuing discourse.
> > http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_92.htm
> > "If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, "
> >
> > Furthermore, to gauge the effectiveness of discussion
> > http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_96.htm
> > "To spend too much time on any one situation is to deny some other
> alcoholic
> > an opportunity to live and be happy. "
> >
> > Irony is, some claiming some sort of AA credibility ignore that
> exhortation
> > completely, while other less fanatical AAers apply it rigidly. Given
time
> > and experience, one often sees all shades in between the two extremes.
> >
> > I prefer the paradoxical cohesion of anarchy in news and opinion here,
but
> > those who prefer censorship by often paradoxically immoderate
"moderators"
> > can access online discussion forums, eg: AA can be found @
> > http://www.aa-intergroup.org/ NA @ http://www.naonline.org/ and Al-Anon
@
> > http://www.ola-is.org/
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
>

>
> Its not important to me if anyone here feels that I am not an alcoholic 'in
> the true sense of the word' I posted for support, which I got from most
> people. I've got over six months sobriety now.........not that long, but
> enough for me to realise how much better life is without alcohol. And long
> enough for me to have been able to put my life back into some sort of order.
>
> debs
>


congrats on your six months deb!
recovery from my alcoholism was the only way i could understand that life WAS NOT "trudging", and that there were
answers for folks like me!


--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie
The obsession to pressure other people to see things our way keeps us
agitated. In contrast, the wisdom to understand that every person's view
has validity, at least for that person, is a gift we receive from working the
Twelve Steps..........................k.casey



"debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:bdorc4$d3d$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
>
> --
> Illegitimi non Carborundum
> "Blue Moon" <mfoco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6ad6c8d139dfba02b97ccb81aa4df53@free.teranew s.com...
>
> >
> > No, self-medication with alcohol (alcohol abuse) and bipolar are often
> > linked. There's a Big Difference between alcohol abuse and
> > alcoholism.
>
> So what you are saying is that if someone posts in here who has been abusing
> alcohol and is looking for some support to stop doing this.....they are in
> the wrong place.
> Are you going to set yourself up as judge and jury about who is an alcoholic
> and who is abusing it????
> IMHO if someone is desparate enough to post to this group for support then
> they should be able to get it. There is a thin line often between abuse and
> alcoholism and who is to say who has stepped over this line.
> I started off abusing alcohol to get sleep but at some stage I stepped over
> the line and found that even with bi-polar meds in place and working well, I
> still drank. I got addicted. I needed the buzz sometimes and other times I
> drank to forget. And sometimes I went a couple of weeks without a drink and
> then drank to reward myself because I fooled myself that I could stop any
> time I wanted so just a couple wouldn't hurt. Trouble was one glass was too
> much and a bucket full was never enough.
>
> Its not important to me if anyone here feels that I am not an alcoholic 'in
> the true sense of the word' I posted for support, which I got from most
> people. I've got over six months sobriety now.........not that long, but
> enough for me to realise how much better life is without alcohol. And long
> enough for me to have been able to put my life back into some sort of order.
>
> debs
>
>
>
>
>

The obsession to pressure other people to see things our way keeps us
agitated. In contrast, the wisdom to understand that every person's view
has validity, at least for that person, is a gift we receive from working the
Twelve Steps..........................k.casey