According to the 12 steps advocated by Alcoholics Anonymous, alcoholics
are supposed to turn to God/A higher power for help in overcoming
alcoholism. Alcoholics are to believe that a higher power can restore
them to sanity, turn their wills and lives over to God, admit to God the
exact nature of their wrongs, ask God to remove their shortcomings, and
seek through prayer and meditation to improve their conscious contact
with God.

If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
Steps?

If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
freedom of religion?

> If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> Steps?

Excellent question!

> If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> freedom of religion?

Another excellent question!

Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:



>
> If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> Steps?

See my previous post on the subject - I'm an atheist and have had no
problems with the steps.

> If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> freedom of religion?

This is a tricky area. I personally am conflicted as to whether this
practice is morally right or even constitutional. On the other hand, I've
known many drunks over the years who came initially by court order and
stayed because the program was working for them.

Tim Bruening wrote:
> According to the 12 steps advocated by Alcoholics Anonymous, alcoholics
> are supposed to turn to God/A higher power for help in overcoming
> alcoholism. Alcoholics are to believe that a higher power can restore
> them to sanity, turn their wills and lives over to God, admit to God the
> exact nature of their wrongs, ask God to remove their shortcomings, and
> seek through prayer and meditation to improve their conscious contact
> with God.
>
> If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> Steps?
>
> If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> freedom of religion?

If you are still discussing your friend's wife, you hadn't mentioned
before that she was attending court ordered AA. I suggest that she find
a sponsor who is also an atheist or at least agnostic.

Many atheists do well in AA but as I said before I am not an atheist so
I'd rather not talk about how they do it since I can only share my own
experience.

If an atheist has a choice I would recommend Rational Recovery with the
caveat that they don't let themselves get sucked into the anger written
into the small book. Aside from that, it has some effective ideas.

In news:47A6EE9A.6A863357@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us,
Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> typed:lugubriously
> According to the 12 steps advocated by Alcoholics Anonymous,
> alcoholics are supposed to turn to God/A higher power for help in
> overcoming alcoholism. Alcoholics are to believe that a higher power
> can restore them to sanity, turn their wills and lives over to God,
> admit to God the exact nature of their wrongs, ask God to remove
> their shortcomings, and seek through prayer and meditation to improve
> their conscious contact with God.
>
> If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> Steps?
>
> If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> freedom of religion?

Arf 12 anyone - I'm taking bets - starting now *^(\)

3 to 1 and floating points don;t count

Cheers

"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:47A6EE9A.6A863357@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> According to the 12 steps advocated by Alcoholics Anonymous, alcoholics
> are supposed to turn to God/A higher power for help in overcoming
> alcoholism. Alcoholics are to believe that a higher power can restore
> them to sanity, turn their wills and lives over to God, admit to God the
> exact nature of their wrongs, ask God to remove their shortcomings, and
> seek through prayer and meditation to improve their conscious contact
> with God.
>
> If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> Steps?
>
> If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> freedom of religion?

You need to do what all Christians do.

You need to (pretend) that a God exists.

It doesn't matter whether God is or isn't, just (try to believe) that there
is a God, no matter how ridiculous it seems.

If you are cured of alcoholism and God wasn't real then who cares if God is
imaginary?

Dan from Boston wrote:

> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >
> > If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> > Steps?
>
> See my previous post on the subject - I'm an atheist and have had no
> problems with the steps.

How were you able to turn to a "Higher Power/God" without BELIEVING in God's
existence?

JoeRaisin wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > According to the 12 steps advocated by Alcoholics Anonymous, alcoholics
> > are supposed to turn to God/A higher power for help in overcoming
> > alcoholism. Alcoholics are to believe that a higher power can restore
> > them to sanity, turn their wills and lives over to God, admit to God the
> > exact nature of their wrongs, ask God to remove their shortcomings, and
> > seek through prayer and meditation to improve their conscious contact
> > with God.
> >
> > If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> > Steps?
> >
> > If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> > this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> > freedom of religion?
>
> If you are still discussing your friend's wife, you hadn't mentioned
> before that she was attending court ordered AA. I suggest that she find
> a sponsor who is also an atheist or at least agnostic.

She is not an atheist. I was merely asking how atheists would handle the AA
admonition to "turn to a higher power", since they don't believe in higher
powers!

She was indeed court ordered to go to at least 2 AA meetings a week after
biting her husband's hand. However, she has begun going to AA meetings daily.

Jamffer wrote:

> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:47A6EE9A.6A863357@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> > According to the 12 steps advocated by Alcoholics Anonymous, alcoholics
> > are supposed to turn to God/A higher power for help in overcoming
> > alcoholism. Alcoholics are to believe that a higher power can restore
> > them to sanity, turn their wills and lives over to God, admit to God the
> > exact nature of their wrongs, ask God to remove their shortcomings, and
> > seek through prayer and meditation to improve their conscious contact
> > with God.
> >
> > If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
> > Steps?
> >
> > If an alcoholic atheist is COURT ORDERED to attend AA meetings, would
> > this constitute an infringement on their First Amendment right to
> > freedom of religion?
>
> You need to do what all Christians do.
>
> You need to (pretend) that a God exists.
>
> It doesn't matter whether God is or isn't, just (try to believe) that there
> is a God, no matter how ridiculous it seems.
>
> If you are cured of alcoholism and God wasn't real then who cares if God is
> imaginary?

If you don't truly BELIEVE in God, how can you use faith in Him to cure your
alcoholism?

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:27:37 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>
>
>Dan from Boston wrote:
>
>> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > If an alcoholic happens to be an atheist, how would he apply the 12
>> > Steps?
>>
>> See my previous post on the subject - I'm an atheist and have had no
>> problems with the steps.
>
>How were you able to turn to a "Higher Power/God" without BELIEVING in God's
>existence?

Well if amongst the literature there is the suggestion one may use the
aa group for a higher power ...no one hopefully would take the 'group'
to be *god*...though a few in the *group* might take themselves to be
*god*.