"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gkdoq35obp6esatta6skjrcni6nembsp6l@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 07:02:40 GMT, "Muddle" <berniesimmons@epix.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tim and Lisa" <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:47ab431e$0$6162$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>>
>>> "RonG" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
>>> news3Hqj.44341$m6.24249@newsfe18.lga...
>>>>
>>>> "Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:nv8lq3t72rhbs5a46ns6ul0gov9q20afq5@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:03:53 -0600, "Rob D."
>>>>> <fr.robert.yourfrustrations.dye@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I would think dating someone in the program best avoided, unless BOTH
>>>>>>have a good strong recovery and quite a bit of time in...and even
>>>>>>then,
>>>>>>it might not be so savvy...
>>>>>
>>>>> Why ... do the odds go up dating someone outside the program...seems
>>>>> to me the chance of a relationship lasting are about 50/50 ...no
>>>>> matter who is or isn't in the program or even if both ain't in the
>>>>> program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time in...what the hell does that have to do with anything...unless of
>>>>> course one makes the assumption time in is suppose to translate into
>>>>> being 'better' or stonger or whatever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here we are involved in a program (those of us involved in a program)
>>>>> where we talk of being beyond human aid....etc. ... then there's a
>>>>> portion of the program where one is told we treat sex like any other
>>>>> problem...do I put aside dealing with anything and everything for a
>>>>> year...just because some savvy A-hole says so... I don't think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am of the understanding it's an individual deal based on each
>>>>> individuals spiritual condition...some will find for them they can
>>>>> while other's will find they can't...and if they can't then they best
>>>>> get to work on their spiritual condition...some will find they can but
>>>>> don't care to...that's fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
>>>>> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
>>>>> what it suggests you do...if ya fall short ...get back up and make it
>>>>> right...If one is honest, unselfish, and not causing any harm ...in
>>>>> fit spiritual condition...fuck it go for it...after all if it's based
>>>>> on avoidance the chances are it's doomed...base it on a fit spiritual
>>>>> condition ... then if it works out or if it falls apart ...you are
>>>>> still standing ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>>>>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>>>>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>>>>> lives.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
>>>> jerk a few people around.
>>>>
>>>> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
>>>> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in
>>>> your
>>>> life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put the
>>>> bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up
>>>> decisions
>>>> because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how to make
>>>> good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it took a
>>>> while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life that did
>>>> not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse. No, I am
>>>> not
>>>> trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I made were
>>>> sound
>>>> but the improvement was dramatically better and took time. If nothing
>>>> else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a few people
>>>> before
>>>> I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And from my experience
>>>> and that of others I have seen over the years, most are not clear
>>>> headed
>>>> enough, or wise enough to think through an issue without booze for some
>>>> time before they can begin to trust their thinking as to making sound
>>>> judgments. How many do you think are able to immediately break their
>>>> self
>>>> centered acting on impulse way of life right after they get sober? Not
>>>> too many I suspect.
>>>>
>>>> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
>>>> business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
>>>> did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
>>>> example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
>>>> me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
>>>> drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
>>>> formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
>>>> shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected
>>>> that
>>>> I thought out my revenge while drunk.
>>>>
>>>> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
>>>> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
>>>> to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on
>>>> out
>>>> of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard and
>>>> fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good suggestion.
>>>> Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober for a year.
>>>> Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions as if you
>>>> are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to insure that
>>>> you won't remain sober.
>>>>
>>>> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
>>>> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>>>>
>>>> Salt and pepper
>>>> RonG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well for me that sound decision started on the day in Aug 16th 2001 and
>>> I
>>> knew if I went to bed sober I was going to wake up sober. It worked fur
>>> me
>>> in the begining. I think they can get honest from day one, it's the
>>> unselfishness that takes time...
>>>
>>> Timburr
>>>
>>
>>There are many happy sober couples in AA, just as in the real world. The
>>problems with relationships within AA are twofold. One is people just
>>sobering up need to pull their head out of their ass before starting a
>>relationship and the other is many old timers, male and female, doing what
>>I've always heard called 13th stepping or starting relationships with
>>newcomers when that's the last thing these people need. If two people
>>have
>>a decent program going and want to hook up that's fine as far as I'm
>>concerned and the relationships usually work out well. I've seen more
>>couples divorce, because one is in the program and one isn't than if both
>>are. Having a major portion of your life that a significant other can't
>>really participate in and will never understand is often a problem.
>>
>
> Damn Muddle....you are making too much sense.

Being an active member of Al-Anon would give a person a LOT greater capacity
for "understanding" the alcoholic, drunk or sober.

"Buddy Butt" <buddybutt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20080208100421.997$NG@newsreader.com...
>> >
>> >
>>
>> And then there is the situation I've seen quite a few times where two
>> relative newcomers, both seemingly working the program to the best of
>> their abilities, hook up and things look great for a little while. Then
>> one of them goes back out, and the other is now facing a serious threat
>> to their own sobriety.
>>
>> I'm all for offering my ES&H and then letting people make their own
>> decisions. But there are a number of ways relationships can end badly
>> for newcomers. Now, as it has been pointed out in this thread, *ANY*
>> relationship has a good chance of ending badly. The biggest difference I
>> can see is that when a newcomer relationship ends badly, there is a
>> good chance of somebody getting drunk who really needs to be staying
>> sober.
>
>
> That pretty much says it all.

Tex won't agree.

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:59:52 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
>What kinds of non-God powers are higher or greater than oneself?

The forces of Nature that drive the Universe. The rules the Universe
operates by are amazing. Read up on quantum mechanics for example.

The energy of life that is all around you, in you, in other human
beings, in plants, in animals. There is nothing religious about the
force of life itself, the instinct and will to survive, live, grow.

The belief is right and wrong, which atheists have, do they not?
Those are a few example I can think of. Good and evil do exist in
human being and there is nothing religious about that. Some human
beings are born without a sense of right and wrong, psychopaths. What
is religious about that?

>I had thought that an atheist would not believe in ANY higher power!

Well, you've "met" some here that do. Go to an open AA meeting and
you'll meet others that do too.

Kim/Dreamspinner3
Parrot Nannies of Minnesota Inc:
http://parrotnanniesmn.com/
Personal Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/

"Biljo White" <biljowhite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20080202204102.760$3d@newsreader.com...
> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> What medications, if any, do you take to reduce your cravings for
>> alcohol? I ask because the wife of a co-worker is severally alcoholic.
>> She can't stay sober for more than a few days at a time, then drinks for
>> many days. When she drinks, she turns violent, forcing her husband to
>> move out. She is currently sober and relatively stable, and her husband
>> ate dinner with her last night, but I would like to get her anti craving
>> medicines before she drinks again and again alienates her husband!!!!!
>
> That's for medical people to decide. In the meantime, she may have to go
> to
> rehab. At minimum, she should begin going to AA meetings and her husband
> to
> Alanon.
>
> The catch: if she doesn't want help there is no way she's going to get it.
> Trying to coax or make her do something about her drinking is a waste of
> time.
>
> Please feel free to ask more questions. And good luck.

Drugs...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KXROnzpsrlg