<DaveB> wrote in message news:47aa82d5.18199535@news.dslextreme.com...
> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:56:18 -0800, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Dan from Boston wrote:
>>
>>> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>> > Yesterday morning, she went to a 6:30 am AA meeting by walking in the
>>> > cold, as she had lost the keys to her truck, and doesn't have a bike.
>>> > When I last talked to her, she was about to go to a 6:30 pm meeting.
>>> > Fortunately, she got new keys for her truck yesterday during the day,
>>> > as
>>> > she had gotten a cold from walking in the cold.
>>>
>>> That's very encouraging. I've found that when a person isn't ready for
>>> the
>>> program, any excuse will do. When they are ready, you can't keep them
>>> out
>>> with a baseball bat.
>>
>>She attended two more meetings today, then picked up her husband at the
>>library and went on a date.
>>
> What does the husband think of her going on dates?
> Daveb

Maybe, now that she is sober she realizes that the "yardstick" that her
husband used to measure his dick was, in reality, only a 6 inch sewing
ruler!!!

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:12:59 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Dan from Boston" <danfromboston2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:20080206111811.234$8f@newsreader.com...
>> "sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Inappropriate sexual relationships, especially early in recovery, have
>>> caused a LOT of alcoholics to go back drinking.
>>
>> Absolutely true. The newcomer should avoid dating within the program for
>> at
>> least a year, and not make any life changes during that time (job,
>> location, marital status, etc.) -- of course, sometimes these things are
>> forced on us.
>>
>> A lot of very savvy old timers recommend that we not date within the
>> program at all. I've seen both good and bad results from this.
>
>With VERY few exceptions, in my 27 plus years in AA, I have seen VERY few
>romantic relationships, let alone marriages, between AAs last. Very rare are
>the exceptions. Of course, when a sponsor mentions it, the sponsee believes
>that he/she IS the exception.
>

Last...is the measuring stick until death do us part? If that's the
case nowadays even among those not alcoholic or in the program it's
said to only be about a 50/50 chance to last.

I don't think it's a program thing...it's a deal between two
individuals.

At the last office where I last worked....1st fellow 2nd wife, 2nd
fellow 1st wife, 1st gal 1st husband, 3rd fellow gay, 2nd gal 2nd
husband, 3rd gal 1st husband, 4th fellow 2nd wife, 5th fellow looking
for 4th wife, 6th fellow 1st wife, 7th fellow not looking for 3rd
wife, 4th gal 2nd husband, 8th fellow 2nd wife......that's 12
non-alcoholics in one small office 4 gals half not with 2st husband...
8 fellows only two with 1st wife...

Hey Sharx666....I bet about 99% went into all of them expecting to be
the exception. One thing about the idea of being in fit spiritual
condition....if it works or if it doesn't .... you don't have to
drinik over it.

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:15:24 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Well, I speak out of my own experience...and observation. Obviously, no
>miracle happens at the stroke of midnight on the 365th day! And obviously
>not all relationships between AAs and NON-AAs are made in Heaven!!!!

Ok...does your experience and observation of those non-alcoholics
getting together differ so much (really)?

If some miracle took place at the stroke of midnight on the 365th
day...I'd say ok. Like you say ... it doesn't. So setting some cookie
cutter timeline is nonsense if not bullshit ...along the lines of
saying if you don't go to meetings you'll get drunk...or a half dozen
or so of other off the wall lines of bullshit Ol' Savvy A-holes put
out there and pass off as part of AA.

AA is program of recovery from alcoholism....which requires the
individual to do some things...it says do those things and sobriety
can be yours we believe because we did and it works for us. It even
says you might not get the family back if you've lost them...goes on
to talk about job or no job....

"sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Savvy my ass....this one year shit is bullshit. What happens at the
> > end of a year?
> >
> > It's an individual deal based on each individual .... there ain't no
> > cookie cutter time table for any of it.
>
> Well, I speak out of my own experience...and observation. Obviously, no
> miracle happens at the stroke of midnight on the 365th day! And obviously
> not all relationships between AAs and NON-AAs are made in Heaven!!!!

Sharx, you are using logic, reality, and pertinent experience to sway a
usenet kook. Their kick is to disagree with everything and thus to gain the
attention they crave. I have a dog who is a lot smarter than Tex.

Tex wrote:
<snip>
> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
> lives.

One thing foe sure.... The first guy who said "no dating in the first
year" had more than a year in. (Rule #973: Never make a restriction that
applies to yourself.) :-)

On Feb 7, 1:50*am, Tex <twizz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
> what it suggests you do...

Seriously, the sexual attitudes one finds in AA are cultural
attitudes. Most Americans and english Canadians look at sex with the
same arritudes as tight-arsed Protestants.

French AA, which I've attended many times in Quebec is far more social
and has much less emphasis on recovery "by the book." Most French
treat sex like the need for food or water and I know from personal
experience that scratching the itch is normal in French groups.
Jimbo

On Feb 6, 10:53*am, Tex <twizz...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Explain inappropriate sexual relationships....

It doesn't meet their criteria!
Jimbo

Tex wrote:

> Savvy my ass....this one year shit is bullshit. What happens at the
> end of a year?
>
> It's an individual deal based on each individual .... there ain't no
> cookie cutter time table for any of it.

It doesn't just apply in the program...we tend to think and live the
cycle of the year.

I have encountered this with folks grieving the death of a spouse...and
they often tell me that that first year is the hardest...

We go through all the dates important to us in a year...birthdays, both
our own and loved ones, local festivals, holidays, family gatherings, etc.

Stopping drinking is not all that different from grieving, IMNSHO...we
lose "someone" with who we have had a very significant "relationship."

Getting through that first year...I am convinced there *is* a change, a
mental adjustment we make, and I see this as a wise practice in
recovery, although not a hard and fast "rule." (There are *always*
exceptions...)

Rob

"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nv8lq3t72rhbs5a46ns6ul0gov9q20afq5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:03:53 -0600, "Rob D."
> <fr.robert.yourfrustrations.dye@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I would think dating someone in the program best avoided, unless BOTH
>>have a good strong recovery and quite a bit of time in...and even
>>then,
>>it might not be so savvy...
>
> Why ... do the odds go up dating someone outside the program...seems
> to me the chance of a relationship lasting are about 50/50 ...no
> matter who is or isn't in the program or even if both ain't in the
> program.
>
> Time in...what the hell does that have to do with anything...unless of
> course one makes the assumption time in is suppose to translate into
> being 'better' or stonger or whatever.
>
> Here we are involved in a program (those of us involved in a program)
> where we talk of being beyond human aid....etc. ... then there's a
> portion of the program where one is told we treat sex like any other
> problem...do I put aside dealing with anything and everything for a
> year...just because some savvy A-hole says so... I don't think so.
>
> I am of the understanding it's an individual deal based on each
> individuals spiritual condition...some will find for them they can
> while other's will find they can't...and if they can't then they best
> get to work on their spiritual condition...some will find they can but
> don't care to...that's fine.
>
> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
> what it suggests you do...if ya fall short ...get back up and make it
> right...If one is honest, unselfish, and not causing any harm ...in
> fit spiritual condition...fuck it go for it...after all if it's based
> on avoidance the chances are it's doomed...base it on a fit spiritual
> condition ... then if it works out or if it falls apart ...you are
> still standing ...
>
> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
> lives.


I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
jerk a few people around.

How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in
your life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put
the bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up
decisions because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how
to make good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it
took a while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life
that did not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse.
No, I am not trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I
made were sound but the improvement was dramatically better and took
time. If nothing else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a
few people before I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And
from my experience and that of others I have seen over the years, most
are not clear headed enough, or wise enough to think through an issue
without booze for some time before they can begin to trust their
thinking as to making sound judgments. How many do you think are able to
immediately break their self centered acting on impulse way of life
right after they get sober? Not too many I suspect.

One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected
that I thought out my revenge while drunk.

No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on
out of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard
and fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good
suggestion. Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober
for a year. Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions
as if you are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to
insure that you won't remain sober.

How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?

Salt and pepper
RonG

On 07 Feb 2008 13:20:04 GMT, buddybutt@hotmail.com(Buddy Butt) wrote:

>Sharx, you are using logic, reality, and pertinent experience to sway a
>usenet kook. Their kick is to disagree with everything and thus to gain the
>attention they crave. I have a dog who is a lot smarter than Tex.

Does this mean my feelings should be hurt?.....I agree there are
plenty of dogs smarter than myself.

Does my agreement with you on the smart dog issue threaten my
promotion to 'usenet kook'?

CC can put it into words better than I can...about craving
attention...and if I've read his words with any understanding and I
understood what he was saying them I suspect anyone writing to ng's
crave some sort of attention....that most though won't own up to it.

I'm not disagreeing most relationships don't work out ... in aa or
outside aa...what I do agree with is those who pass their opinions off
as 'program' (including myself) even if based on logic, reality, and
pertinent experience are just that personal opinions not the aa
program.

Thanks for the attention Buddy Butt ... you've helped make my day.