Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> I had thought that an atheist would not believe in ANY higher power!

I can only speak for myself. The AA program is clearly greater than any
individual. I just don't believe in a supernatural being who somehow is
going to help me or judge me. Reason: no evidence.

But these are side issues. It sounds like your friend is on the right
track.

Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> Have any atheist alcoholics ever objected to being court ordered to
> attend AA on the grounds that their right to not believe in God is being
> infringed?

I believe they have and that this issue is in the courts right now. This
would evolve out of the common misconception that AA is a religious
program.

Even so, the idea of court ordered treatment of any kind is controversial
in my mind, even though I've know AAs who got their start with a court
order and now thank the courts for their action.

"sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> At the start of recovery, all should be issued an industrial-strength
> vibrator--to "take the edge off".

Tim, Sharx is an erotomaniac and a right-wing nutcake, but when he speaks
on AA (not in this post!) he knows his stuff.

Tim Bruening wrote:

>
> What kinds of non-God powers are higher or greater than oneself?
>
> I had thought that an atheist would not believe in ANY higher power!
>

Can you lift a car by yourself?

Could you do it with the aid of a crane?

There are many things you can do with outside help (a "higher power"
that you cannot do all by yourself.

Anyone who has a problem with alcohol who could quit or control it on
their own would do so. Some people do just that.

But if one *can't* (alcoholism), sometimes one *can*, with the aid of
someone else. If it has to be with the aid of a group, or with the aid
of the 12 steps...then those things are "higher powers" than the unaided
will alone.

Rob

Tim Bruening wrote:
>


> To me, a "Higher Power" is something divine or spiritual, like God. I have a
> hard time regarding a group of human beings as divine or spiritual.
>


Divine...? No.

Spiritual? Maybe, in the sense of being in tune with their own spirits...

But a Higher Power, in AA, is what you understand it to be. You get to
define it yourself.

Tim Bruening wrote:
>


> Have any atheist alcoholics ever objected to being court ordered to attend AA
> on the grounds that their right to not believe in God is being infringed?
>

Sure.

My personal opinion is that the judge who offered them an alternative to
jail, if they would take it, ought to shrug and summon the bailiff.

Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> Dan from Boston wrote:
>
>> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>>> What happens if the alcoholic is an atheist? How would he draw on a
>>> "Higher Power"?
>> Tim, I'm an atheist and I've been sober in AA for nearly 29 years. Your
>> higher power can be anything you select, and it can change over time. It is
>> essentially something outside of yourself. Many people, including me, call
>> AA itself their higher power, but that's up to the individual.
>
> Have any atheist alcoholics ever objected to being court ordered to attend AA
> on the grounds that their right to not believe in God is being infringed?
>
Ok, Bud. Your "friend" and his "wife" have gathered some info. Tommy
called it. Perhaps your time is best for puns.

Tim Bruening wrote:
>


>>>>> power would be enough to resist the reduced craving.
>>>> Glucose tablets.
>>> How do glucose tablets work?
>>>
>> They sweeten up sour old farts.
>
> How does that reduce alcohol cravings?
>


A heavy drinker is getting a LOT of carbs....so when you're craving, the
theory is PART of the craving is forf the carbs.

When I stopped drinking, I ate a ton of R**se's Pieces. It seemed to
help, but that may have been endorphines from the chocolate.

Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> sharx35 wrote:
>
>> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> news:47A835CB.AEAD4A41@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>>>
>>> sharx35 wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>>>> news:47A830EE.27DBC7D@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>>>>>
>>>>> sharx35 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47A81F79.A84161E7@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "F.H." wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>>>>>>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> jimbo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 2, 7:38 pm, Tim Bruening <tsbru...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What medications, if any, do you take to reduce your cravings
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alcohol?
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never taken a medication to reduce craving nor have I
>>>>>>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>>>>>>> heard
>>>>>>>>>>>> of one that works. Her best best would be to consult a
>>>>>>>>>>>> physician.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jimbo
>>>>>>>>>>> How then do you resist the urge to drink?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't - at least not for very long. That was until I began
>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>> a program in AA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AA taught me to draw strength from my higher power in order to
>>>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>>> that first drink. By staying sober for more than a few days to
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>> weeks at a time I continued working the steps and developed a
>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> perspective on myself - a perspective that meant I could look at
>>>>>>>>>> myself
>>>>>>>>>> in the mirror without loathing. Once I became comfortable with
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> was, avoiding the first drink became a lot less difficult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will offer to you a perspective you may not have considered.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> friend's wife is an alcoholic she is not drinking for the same
>>>>>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>>> as you or most other social drinkers. Most people drink because
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> like the way it makes them feel, alcoholics drink because they
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> like the way they feel when they are not drinking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Slogans won't change that, nor will medications.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If AA isn't her cup of tea, she could try Rational Recovery
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> utilizes "Addictive Voice Recognition Technique" in order to
>>>>>>>>>> stave
>>>>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>>>> cravings. The only caveat with RR is to try and avoid the anger
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> the program is darned near built upon. While reading the small
>>>>>>>>>> book I
>>>>>>>>>> get the impression that RR sobriety is more a case of staying
>>>>>>>>>> sober
>>>>>>>>>> 'at'
>>>>>>>>>> AA rather than being sober to better one's life.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the end, however, it boils down to whether or not she 'wants'
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> quit
>>>>>>>>>> drinking. If not, nothing you (or even your friend) can do to
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>> to stop.
>>>>>>>>> After nearly losing her husband last week, I believe that she now
>>>>>>>>> wants
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> quit. The problem is that she gets a strong craving for alcohol
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>>> days. Often, her stepdad shows up and takes her to a bar to
>>>>>>>>> drink
>>>>>>>>> double
>>>>>>>>> vodkas. I was hoping to find drugs to reduce that craving so
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> power would be enough to resist the reduced craving.
>>>>>>>> Glucose tablets.
>>>>>>> How do glucose tablets work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They sweeten up sour old farts.
>>>>> How does that reduce alcohol cravings?
>>>>>
>>>> Sweet old farts or fartesses have a lesser desire to drink.
>>> Why do they have a lesser desire to drink?
>>>
>> Because of the glucose pill.
>
> How does the glucose pill reduce one's desire to drink?
>
AT least learn to freckin' snip, ya goof.

Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> "F.H." wrote:
>>>Tim Bruening wrote:
>>> I was hoping to find drugs to reduce that craving so that her will
>>> power would be enough to resist the reduced craving.


>> Glucose tablets.
>
> How do glucose tablets work?

Most alcoholics are severely hypoglycemic. Some have the tendency
before they begin drinking, some develop it from drinking. Low blood
sugar has symptoms that trigger the impulse to reach for booze (or
sweets). Glucose tablets (cheap and available at most drug stores) can
stabilize blood sugar and relieve these symptoms:

Trembling, Clamminess, Palpitations, Anxiety, Sweating, Hunger,
Difficulty in thinking, Confusion.

http://fobw.tribe.net/thread/2bb9ffa...3-85369b13ac4a

http://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...emia-5109.html