On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 07:28:35 -0600, "Charlie M. 1958"
<charlesmarshall@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Tex wrote:
><snip>
>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>> lives.
>
>One thing foe sure.... The first guy who said "no dating in the first
>year" had more than a year in. (Rule #973: Never make a restriction that
>applies to yourself.) :-)

Or based on logic, reality, and pertinent experience .... were
married and not getting any at home and wanted everyone else to be in
the same boat they were in.

I have a cat smarter than Buddy Butt....Hah ha ha ha Hah ha!

Outline to being a usenet kook....disagree with someone who has
'Years" or is an 'Ol Savvy' oldtimer.

Savvy oldtimer: One who did it this way...So this way has to be the
way....sometimes known as 'My way or the Highway' in aa and on usenet
the shorter version...'Thumps".

"RonG" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
news3Hqj.44341$m6.24249@newsfe18.lga...
>
> "Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:nv8lq3t72rhbs5a46ns6ul0gov9q20afq5@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:03:53 -0600, "Rob D."
>> <fr.robert.yourfrustrations.dye@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I would think dating someone in the program best avoided, unless BOTH
>>>have a good strong recovery and quite a bit of time in...and even then,
>>>it might not be so savvy...
>>
>> Why ... do the odds go up dating someone outside the program...seems
>> to me the chance of a relationship lasting are about 50/50 ...no
>> matter who is or isn't in the program or even if both ain't in the
>> program.
>>
>> Time in...what the hell does that have to do with anything...unless of
>> course one makes the assumption time in is suppose to translate into
>> being 'better' or stonger or whatever.
>>
>> Here we are involved in a program (those of us involved in a program)
>> where we talk of being beyond human aid....etc. ... then there's a
>> portion of the program where one is told we treat sex like any other
>> problem...do I put aside dealing with anything and everything for a
>> year...just because some savvy A-hole says so... I don't think so.
>>
>> I am of the understanding it's an individual deal based on each
>> individuals spiritual condition...some will find for them they can
>> while other's will find they can't...and if they can't then they best
>> get to work on their spiritual condition...some will find they can but
>> don't care to...that's fine.
>>
>> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
>> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
>> what it suggests you do...if ya fall short ...get back up and make it
>> right...If one is honest, unselfish, and not causing any harm ...in
>> fit spiritual condition...fuck it go for it...after all if it's based
>> on avoidance the chances are it's doomed...base it on a fit spiritual
>> condition ... then if it works out or if it falls apart ...you are
>> still standing ...
>>
>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>> lives.
>
>
> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
> jerk a few people around.
>
> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in your
> life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put the
> bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up decisions
> because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how to make
> good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it took a
> while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life that did not
> revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse. No, I am not
> trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I made were sound
> but the improvement was dramatically better and took time. If nothing
> else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a few people before
> I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And from my experience
> and that of others I have seen over the years, most are not clear headed
> enough, or wise enough to think through an issue without booze for some
> time before they can begin to trust their thinking as to making sound
> judgments. How many do you think are able to immediately break their self
> centered acting on impulse way of life right after they get sober? Not too
> many I suspect.
>
> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking business
> was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I did not
> realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For example.
> Something would happen between me and someone which would piss me off. I
> would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while drinking, I
> would "think" about the incident and over some time I would formulate my
> revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my shot at this
> person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected that I thought out
> my revenge while drunk.
>
> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn to
> put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on out of
> impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard and fast
> about the one year deal but it does seem like a good suggestion. Most
> people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober for a year.
> Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions as if you are
> still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to insure that you
> won't remain sober.
>
> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>
> Salt and pepper
> RonG
>
>
>
>

Well for me that sound decision started on the day in Aug 16th 2001 and I
knew if I went to bed sober I was going to wake up sober. It worked fur me
in the begining. I think they can get honest from day one, it's the
unselfishness that takes time...

Timburr

RonG wrote:

> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
> jerk a few people around.
>
> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in
> your life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put
> the bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up
> decisions because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how
> to make good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it
> took a while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life
> that did not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse.
> No, I am not trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I
> made were sound but the improvement was dramatically better and took
> time. If nothing else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a
> few people before I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And
> from my experience and that of others I have seen over the years, most
> are not clear headed enough, or wise enough to think through an issue
> without booze for some time before they can begin to trust their
> thinking as to making sound judgments. How many do you think are able to
> immediately break their self centered acting on impulse way of life
> right after they get sober? Not too many I suspect.
>
> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
> business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
> did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
> example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
> me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
> drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
> formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
> shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected
> that I thought out my revenge while drunk.
>
> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
> to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on
> out of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard
> and fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good
> suggestion. Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober
> for a year. Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions
> as if you are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to
> insure that you won't remain sober.
>
> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>
> Salt and pepper
> RonG
>
>
>
>
Ron, I think you did an excellent job here of explaining the reasoning
behind the one-year no-dating suggestion. I think what Tex objects to
(because I *know* it is what I object to) is when sponsors throw that
out as an absolutely unbreakable condition of sobriety. "Go to a meeting
every day, call me every day, don't drink, and NO DATING FOR ONE YEAR!"

Like some people, when reading How it Works, change the emphasis to make
it "What? An Order??!! I can't go through with it!!"

I'd rather share with a newcomer my own experience and observations, as
you did above, and advise him to proceed with extreme caution in
relationship matters.

When I got sober, I had been separated for over a year, and for the
first 6 months it looked like there was no chance of us getting back
together. About that time, I found myself in a relationship with another
alcoholic that ended up causing a lot of grief for everyone concerned
when my wife and I reconciled.

So, on the one hand, I'm a good example of early-sobriety relationships
not being a great idea. On the other, I don't think telling an alcoholic
NOT to do something is very productive. (Especially when he/she does not
yet fully understand how that issue relates to drinking.)

Not to mention, as Tex pointed out, individuals are all different. I've
seen newly sober folks have really healthy relationships, and I've known
guys sober for 20+ years who don't have a clue how to be part of a happy
couple.

And all of this reminds me of the joke:

How can you tell when two alcoholics are on their second date? There's a
U-haul parked in the driveway. :-)

"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:r0jlq3909avppv6s5r8hq4jershac62uo0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:12:59 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dan from Boston" <danfromboston2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:20080206111811.234$8f@newsreader.com...
>>> "sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Inappropriate sexual relationships, especially early in recovery, have
>>>> caused a LOT of alcoholics to go back drinking.
>>>
>>> Absolutely true. The newcomer should avoid dating within the program for
>>> at
>>> least a year, and not make any life changes during that time (job,
>>> location, marital status, etc.) -- of course, sometimes these things are
>>> forced on us.
>>>
>>> A lot of very savvy old timers recommend that we not date within the
>>> program at all. I've seen both good and bad results from this.
>>
>>With VERY few exceptions, in my 27 plus years in AA, I have seen VERY few
>>romantic relationships, let alone marriages, between AAs last. Very rare
>>are
>>the exceptions. Of course, when a sponsor mentions it, the sponsee
>>believes
>>that he/she IS the exception.
>>
>
> Last...is the measuring stick until death do us part? If that's the
> case nowadays even among those not alcoholic or in the program it's
> said to only be about a 50/50 chance to last.
>
> I don't think it's a program thing...it's a deal between two
> individuals.
>
> At the last office where I last worked....1st fellow 2nd wife, 2nd
> fellow 1st wife, 1st gal 1st husband, 3rd fellow gay, 2nd gal 2nd
> husband, 3rd gal 1st husband, 4th fellow 2nd wife, 5th fellow looking
> for 4th wife, 6th fellow 1st wife, 7th fellow not looking for 3rd
> wife, 4th gal 2nd husband, 8th fellow 2nd wife......that's 12
> non-alcoholics in one small office 4 gals half not with 2st husband...
> 8 fellows only two with 1st wife...
>
> Hey Sharx666....I bet about 99% went into all of them expecting to be
> the exception. One thing about the idea of being in fit spiritual
> condition....if it works or if it doesn't .... you don't have to
> drinik over it.

Right...as long as sobriety is the number one priority, as opposed to just
getting regularly laid.

"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3iklq355k4mfk16ugan4gap8pe5dsvbq1o@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:15:24 GMT, "sharx35" <sharx35@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Well, I speak out of my own experience...and observation. Obviously, no
>>miracle happens at the stroke of midnight on the 365th day! And obviously
>>not all relationships between AAs and NON-AAs are made in Heaven!!!!
>
> Ok...does your experience and observation of those non-alcoholics
> getting together differ so much (really)?
>
> If some miracle took place at the stroke of midnight on the 365th
> day...I'd say ok. Like you say ... it doesn't. So setting some cookie
> cutter timeline is nonsense if not bullshit ...along the lines of
> saying if you don't go to meetings you'll get drunk...or a half dozen
> or so of other off the wall lines of bullshit Ol' Savvy A-holes put
> out there and pass off as part of AA.
>
> AA is program of recovery from alcoholism....which requires the
> individual to do some things...it says do those things and sobriety
> can be yours we believe because we did and it works for us. It even
> says you might not get the family back if you've lost them...goes on
> to talk about job or no job....

Well, *some* people spend literally years before doing their FIRST 4th step,
yet don't drink. Would you tell all newcomers that they don't REALLY
**have** to do an inventory because a FEW people who don't do a 4th still
APPEAR to stay sober?

"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news9emq3hlh0qr3715dh4l4bsa6jr62oo17d@4ax.com...
> On 07 Feb 2008 13:20:04 GMT, buddybutt@hotmail.com(Buddy Butt) wrote:
>
>>Sharx, you are using logic, reality, and pertinent experience to sway a
>>usenet kook. Their kick is to disagree with everything and thus to gain
>>the
>>attention they crave. I have a dog who is a lot smarter than Tex.
>
> Does this mean my feelings should be hurt?.....I agree there are
> plenty of dogs smarter than myself.
>
> Does my agreement with you on the smart dog issue threaten my
> promotion to 'usenet kook'?
>
> CC can put it into words better than I can...about craving
> attention...and if I've read his words with any understanding and I
> understood what he was saying them I suspect anyone writing to ng's
> crave some sort of attention....that most though won't own up to it.
>
> I'm not disagreeing most relationships don't work out ... in aa or
> outside aa...what I do agree with is those who pass their opinions off
> as 'program' (including myself) even if based on logic, reality, and
> pertinent experience are just that personal opinions not the aa
> program.
>
> Thanks for the attention Buddy Butt ... you've helped make my day.

There are a LOT of really smart dogs. Not fitting to use them as a
comparison!

"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vcfmq31ferurdf16bts6ndnjc1cio5b2hn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 07:28:35 -0600, "Charlie M. 1958"
> <charlesmarshall@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Tex wrote:
>><snip>
>>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>>> lives.
>>
>>One thing foe sure.... The first guy who said "no dating in the first
>>year" had more than a year in. (Rule #973: Never make a restriction that
>>applies to yourself.) :-)
>
> Or based on logic, reality, and pertinent experience .... were
> married and not getting any at home and wanted everyone else to be in
> the same boat they were in.

Speaking from personal experience, Tex?



>
> I have a cat smarter than Buddy Butt....Hah ha ha ha Hah ha!
>
> Outline to being a usenet kook....disagree with someone who has
> 'Years" or is an 'Ol Savvy' oldtimer.
>
> Savvy oldtimer: One who did it this way...So this way has to be the
> way....sometimes known as 'My way or the Highway' in aa and on usenet
> the shorter version...'Thumps".

"Charlie M. 1958" <charlesmarshall@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13qmiprs3ibiv74@corp.supernews.com...
> RonG wrote:
>
>> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
>> jerk a few people around.
>>
>> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
>> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in your
>> life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put the
>> bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up decisions
>> because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how to make
>> good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it took a
>> while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life that did
>> not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse. No, I am not
>> trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I made were sound
>> but the improvement was dramatically better and took time. If nothing
>> else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a few people before
>> I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And from my experience
>> and that of others I have seen over the years, most are not clear headed
>> enough, or wise enough to think through an issue without booze for some
>> time before they can begin to trust their thinking as to making sound
>> judgments. How many do you think are able to immediately break their self
>> centered acting on impulse way of life right after they get sober? Not
>> too many I suspect.
>>
>> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
>> business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
>> did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
>> example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
>> me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
>> drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
>> formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
>> shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected that
>> I thought out my revenge while drunk.
>>
>> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
>> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
>> to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on out
>> of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard and
>> fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good suggestion.
>> Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober for a year.
>> Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions as if you
>> are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to insure that
>> you won't remain sober.
>>
>> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
>> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>>
>> Salt and pepper
>> RonG
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Ron, I think you did an excellent job here of explaining the reasoning
> behind the one-year no-dating suggestion. I think what Tex objects to
> (because I *know* it is what I object to) is when sponsors throw that out
> as an absolutely unbreakable condition of sobriety. "Go to a meeting every
> day, call me every day, don't drink, and NO DATING FOR ONE YEAR!"
>
> Like some people, when reading How it Works, change the emphasis to make
> it "What? An Order??!! I can't go through with it!!"
>
> I'd rather share with a newcomer my own experience and observations, as
> you did above, and advise him to proceed with extreme caution in
> relationship matters.
>
> When I got sober, I had been separated for over a year, and for the first
> 6 months it looked like there was no chance of us getting back together.
> About that time, I found myself in a relationship with another alcoholic
> that ended up causing a lot of grief for everyone concerned when my wife
> and I reconciled.
>
> So, on the one hand, I'm a good example of early-sobriety relationships
> not being a great idea. On the other, I don't think telling an alcoholic
> NOT to do something is very productive. (Especially when he/she does not
> yet fully understand how that issue relates to drinking.)
>
> Not to mention, as Tex pointed out, individuals are all different. I've
> seen newly sober folks have really healthy relationships, and I've known
> guys sober for 20+ years who don't have a clue how to be part of a happy
> couple.
>
> And all of this reminds me of the joke:
>
> How can you tell when two alcoholics are on their second date? There's a
> U-haul parked in the driveway. :-)

Exactly, but according to Tex, THEY, themselves are the best judges as to
when to rent the U-haul.

"Tim and Lisa" <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:47ab431e$0$6162$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "RonG" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
> news3Hqj.44341$m6.24249@newsfe18.lga...
>>
>> "Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:nv8lq3t72rhbs5a46ns6ul0gov9q20afq5@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:03:53 -0600, "Rob D."
>>> <fr.robert.yourfrustrations.dye@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I would think dating someone in the program best avoided, unless BOTH
>>>>have a good strong recovery and quite a bit of time in...and even then,
>>>>it might not be so savvy...
>>>
>>> Why ... do the odds go up dating someone outside the program...seems
>>> to me the chance of a relationship lasting are about 50/50 ...no
>>> matter who is or isn't in the program or even if both ain't in the
>>> program.
>>>
>>> Time in...what the hell does that have to do with anything...unless of
>>> course one makes the assumption time in is suppose to translate into
>>> being 'better' or stonger or whatever.
>>>
>>> Here we are involved in a program (those of us involved in a program)
>>> where we talk of being beyond human aid....etc. ... then there's a
>>> portion of the program where one is told we treat sex like any other
>>> problem...do I put aside dealing with anything and everything for a
>>> year...just because some savvy A-hole says so... I don't think so.
>>>
>>> I am of the understanding it's an individual deal based on each
>>> individuals spiritual condition...some will find for them they can
>>> while other's will find they can't...and if they can't then they best
>>> get to work on their spiritual condition...some will find they can but
>>> don't care to...that's fine.
>>>
>>> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
>>> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
>>> what it suggests you do...if ya fall short ...get back up and make it
>>> right...If one is honest, unselfish, and not causing any harm ...in
>>> fit spiritual condition...fuck it go for it...after all if it's based
>>> on avoidance the chances are it's doomed...base it on a fit spiritual
>>> condition ... then if it works out or if it falls apart ...you are
>>> still standing ...
>>>
>>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>>> lives.
>>
>>
>> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
>> jerk a few people around.
>>
>> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
>> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in your
>> life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put the
>> bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up decisions
>> because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how to make
>> good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it took a
>> while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life that did
>> not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse. No, I am not
>> trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I made were sound
>> but the improvement was dramatically better and took time. If nothing
>> else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a few people before
>> I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And from my experience
>> and that of others I have seen over the years, most are not clear headed
>> enough, or wise enough to think through an issue without booze for some
>> time before they can begin to trust their thinking as to making sound
>> judgments. How many do you think are able to immediately break their self
>> centered acting on impulse way of life right after they get sober? Not
>> too many I suspect.
>>
>> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
>> business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
>> did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
>> example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
>> me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
>> drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
>> formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
>> shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected that
>> I thought out my revenge while drunk.
>>
>> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
>> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
>> to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on out
>> of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard and
>> fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good suggestion.
>> Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober for a year.
>> Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions as if you
>> are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to insure that
>> you won't remain sober.
>>
>> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
>> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>>
>> Salt and pepper
>> RonG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well for me that sound decision started on the day in Aug 16th 2001 and I
> knew if I went to bed sober I was going to wake up sober. It worked fur me
> in the begining. I think they can get honest from day one, it's the
> unselfishness that takes time...
>
> Timburr
>

There are many happy sober couples in AA, just as in the real world. The
problems with relationships within AA are twofold. One is people just
sobering up need to pull their head out of their ass before starting a
relationship and the other is many old timers, male and female, doing what
I've always heard called 13th stepping or starting relationships with
newcomers when that's the last thing these people need. If two people have
a decent program going and want to hook up that's fine as far as I'm
concerned and the relationships usually work out well. I've seen more
couples divorce, because one is in the program and one isn't than if both
are. Having a major portion of your life that a significant other can't
really participate in and will never understand is often a problem.

DaveB wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:56:18 -0800, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Dan from Boston wrote:
> >
> >> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >> > Yesterday morning, she went to a 6:30 am AA meeting by walking in the
> >> > cold, as she had lost the keys to her truck, and doesn't have a bike.
> >> > When I last talked to her, she was about to go to a 6:30 pm meeting.
> >> > Fortunately, she got new keys for her truck yesterday during the day, as
> >> > she had gotten a cold from walking in the cold.
> >>
> >> That's very encouraging. I've found that when a person isn't ready for the
> >> program, any excuse will do. When they are ready, you can't keep them out
> >> with a baseball bat.
> >
> >She attended two more meetings today, then picked up her husband at the
> >library and went on a date.
> >
> What does the husband think of her going on dates?

A date WITH her husband!