I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
Like clockwork.
I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
ahead and drink the next day.
I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
know this, it's only the start of another binge.
I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
it.
Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
anybody else.
The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
it's eerie.
Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.

Not trying to sell anything, but why not read "The Doctor's Opinion" in the
preface to the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" Might explain a few things for
you.


<skylashai@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192015586.967512.18520@d55g2000hsg.googlegro ups.com...
> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
> revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
> Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
> during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
> drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
> Like clockwork.
> I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
> hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
> drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
> since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
> my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
> ahead and drink the next day.
> I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
> family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
> to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
> At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
> I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
> when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
> past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
> had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
> say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
> of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
> tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
> I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
> that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
> started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
> hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
> at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
> for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
> now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
> that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
> you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
> out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
> I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
> else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
> week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
> great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
> very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
> myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
> know this, it's only the start of another binge.
> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
> doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
> and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
> have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
> but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
> the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
> the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
> they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
> sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
> know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
> me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
> this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
> it.
> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
> astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
> stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
> afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
> been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
> also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
> anybody else.
> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
> in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
> various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
> it's eerie.
> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
> to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
> church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
> what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
> scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
> risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
> shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.
>

skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years.

AA is not some professional clinic
or something, just a bunch of
drunks you would find anywhere. We
smoke, curse, laugh and some of use
are even jerks. You have to go for
YOU, not for the smoking babies.
You can come back any time you
like. Good luck.

Gill

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:26 -0000, skylashai@gmail.com wrote:

>I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
>revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
>Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
>during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
>drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
>Like clockwork.
> I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
>hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
>drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
>since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
>my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
>ahead and drink the next day.
> I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
>family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
>to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
>At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
>I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
>when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
>past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
>had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
>say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
>of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
>tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
> I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
>that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
>started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
>hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
>at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
>for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
>now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
>that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
>you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
>out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
> I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
>else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
>week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
>great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
>very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
>myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
>know this, it's only the start of another binge.
> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
>have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
>the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
>the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
>they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
>sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
>know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
>me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
>this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
>it.
> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
>astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
>stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
>afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
>been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
>also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
>anybody else.
> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
>in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
>various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
>it's eerie.
> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
>to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
>church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
>what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
>scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
>risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
>shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.
>
I had more to worry about than smokers.

Good Luck
Daveb

Hello,

I read with amazement how profoundly similar your current experience
is to my past. I, too, was caught in a rut of drinking heavily on the
weekend, tapering off as much as possible on Sunday afternoon, so I
could go to work, shaking through the week while drinking as little as
possible so I wouldn't be affected at work, feeling a little bit
better by Friday and firing up again on Friday night while saying to
myself, "I won't drink again like I did last weekend." This happened
every single week for about 3 years. At the end of that period I died.
No, really!

In the last several weeks of my drinking career, I could not even
successfully pull off my familiar rut, one I had maintained for years.
Something changed. Alcohol suddenly took over completely. Let me
explain the sequence of events that led up to my death:

Since college, I was an open drinker. Everyone knew I drank here and
there, and didn't really think much of it. By the way, my family has a
history of alcoholism, and that, along with my religious upbringing
prevented me from touching alcohol until I went away to college. For
many years I drank, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Gradually my
drinking increased in severity, until one day I found myself in the
hospital for the first time. I was so angry! How could I have been so
weak -- weak like my dad or uncle?

After that experience my dad convinced me to follow in his footsteps
and involve myself in A.A. So I went, not for myself (I determined
later on), but for him and the rest of the family. I went, and I
listened, and I kept on going. I heard what they said, and I knew I
had a drinking problem, but I just wasn't into it deep down. My
performance was great, however! I was still drinking all the while,
from the first day I left the hospital, and I had everyone convinced
that I was sober, and loving my new life in Alcoholics Anonymous.

Yes, I was drinking, and rather successfully I might add. I didn't
really want to drink. I hoped maybe I could become sober through
osmosis, but I wasn't willing to do anything they asked me to do
except show up. Obviously that did nothing to keep me sober, and the
only thing I learned was something in Bill's Story that talks about
him using high-powered sedatives so he could go to work. I thought,
"AHA!!", that's what I need. So, I started taking Sominex to stop
shaking throughout the day, sometimes a dozen or more pills per day.
(Do you see where this is going?)

By now everyone knew I was "sober". I was going to A.A. and even to
group therapy for addictions. I had a great job still as V.P. of
Marketing for a good-sized business, which I never lost -- still have
today. I had no sign of alcoholic trouble, except for another trip to
the hospital two months after the first, but that was just a slip! "I
got it handled now", I said. No, what it was was a SLIP UP in my
appearance. So I had to go from being a closet drinker to a deep,
undercover closet drinker.

I buried myself in work, and since I was being so "sober", I gradually
went to fewer and fewer A.A. meetings. Eventually, I stopped A.A. and
group therapy all together, and by all accounts was on my way to a
successful, happy life, until....
Damn! Hospital again?! Things were going so well! Now I knew I had a
problem I couldn't hide or fix on my own. I became willing to do it
someone else's way, so I went back to my friends at A.A., which by the
way was the best group in the city at the time by all standards, and
started to do the things they told me to do. I actually stayed
sober! ...for a month! ...well, not really sober. I got a cold and
took some NyQuil, and some more NyQuil, on top of some NyQuil. ...but
at least I wasn't drinking, right?

At one month to the day, I was sitting in a Big Book study at my
familiar group, in my favorite chair. I had just received my 30-day
chip, and I was jonesing for a drink. I WANTED TO DRINK!! Furthermore,
I didn't want anyone to stand in my way. Here I sat in a room of 40
other alcoholics, who knew how to stay sober, and I couldn't bring
myself to ask them for help, to tell them I was in trouble, to ask
someone to take me for coffee or sit on my chest or anything. That
night after the meeting, I went straight to the liquor store and drank
a bottle of vodka in the mall parking lot. Then, while Christmas
shopping, I knew I had started it up all over again. During the next 5
weeks, I spent at least 2-3 days per week in detox. One time I figured
that over a 3-month period, I had been physically in the hospital for
28 days. Now some would think that a little odd! Each time I left the
hospital, I was done. I never wanted it again. Each time the cab
pulled back into my driveway, if I didn't have it in the house, I'd
jump in my car and off to the liquor store. Only this time it would be
different...I'd just have a little bit...just a couple of swallows to
knock the edge off...after all, I haven't had a drink in days...

February 2, 1999 -- the Rolling Stones were at McNichols Arena in
Denver. To quote Westword, a local paper, "Description of ticket
prices for the Rolling Stones' Denver appearance: The highest ever for
a rock concert in the city. Unscalped: $50-$250. Scalped: Got a
calculator?" My dad had bought tickets for the entire family for
Christmas. I don't mean Mom, Dad, Brother, and Sister. I mean the
family -- aunts, uncles, cousins, their dogs... Dad called me and said
he was coming over to pick me up for the concert. I said, "I can't go,
I'm too bad." He told me he would take me back to detox, before he
left for the show.
I started getting some personal things together to take to the
hospital, as I had been in the habit of doing for the previous four
weeks. Then my mind told me something very strange. It said, "If
you're going back into detox, you won't be able to drink for several
days. You might as well tie a good one on!" So I nailed about another
quart of vodka before he arrived. When he got there, he led me out to
the minivan he was driving. That's all I remember.

I was told later that I passed out standing up, and hit my head on the
pavement like a pumpkin. He had just had surgery on his wrist, so I'm
not sure how he got me into the seat. I think he had some help from
the neighbor, but I'm not sure. According to him, my lungs stopped on
the way to the hospital. When he got me to the emergency room, they
wheeled me inside on a gurney, where eleven E.R. technicians fought
for my life. My dad asked how he could help. They told him to stay out
of the way, they were trying to bring me back. He thought they meant
back from the negative effects of the alcohol, what with the charcoal
powder forced down my throat, I.V. solutions in my arm, etc... Two
days later they clarified to him that they were bringing me back from
death, for not only had my lungs stopped working, but my heart had
stopped as well.

Save for some brain activity, I was a gonner. I had clocked in with a
blood alcohol level of 0.618. They told me at the time, it was the
highest count the emergency room had taken in where the patient
actually survived. Nothing to be proud of, certainly! So, I had
allowed my disease to progress to the point of death. Eight-and-a-half
years later I'm still here, and still sober. Nary a drop! I've come
from a place of hating alcohol, but not being able to leave it alone,
to completely free of it. I don't want it, and best of all, I don't
miss it.

"So how did I get here?", you may ask. Well, first of all, I knew in
my soul that I was finally done. I became willing to do whatever it
took not to have to drink alcohol again. I surrendered myself entirely
to God while still in the hospital. I felt I had been given a second
chance at life, and it was going to be one devoid of alcohol. I really
didn't know how it would happen or could happen, but I had a feeling
it was going to be okay somehow. I spent 11 days in detox the last
time, not because I needed to detox, but because they wouldn't let me
leave without a life-changing plan in place. The doctor, himself a
recovered alcoholic, wanted to send me to Hazelden in Minnesota, but
together we opted for Harmony Foundation in Estes Park, CO. There I
learned some basic tools to start on my road to recovery. I took their
instruction seriously, by God's grace. Others in my group did not. One
guy passed out drunk and drowned in his hot tub within 3 months after
graduating. Countless others I new from there, all of them in fact,
have relapsed. Many have not returned to sobriety.

What made me different from all the rest? The others who failed after
treatment heard the same words I did, did the same activities, and had
similar experiences to mine. Having an A.A. sponsor didn't get me
sober. Going to A.A. meetings didn't get me sober. Going to church
didn't either. I had a great relationship with God, I thought. I was
raised in the church, went to church most weeks (drank on the way to
and from), and prayed all the time. I saw God's influence on my life
and the lives of those around me rather frequently. While I was
drinking, I remember weeping for joy at the loving relationship I had
found with my Creator, but I was still drinking.

The only thing that made the difference in my life was the 12 Steps of
Alcoholics Anonymous as outlined in the Big Book, and as guided by my
sponsor. PERIOD!! Not that the 12 Steps themselves got me sober, but
for me they were a necessary path to finding the special connection
with God as it relates to my alcoholism. It is God that stands in the
way between me and a first drink. I never had that before. I had God,
but I didn't know He could keep me sober until I experienced the 12
Steps. For years, I read lightly through the 4th Chapter of the Big
Book, called "We Agnostics". I didn't see how it applied to me,
because I believed in God. In fact, I had multiple experiences of His
influence in my life that convinced me early on. What I didn't know is
that I was agnostic when it came to booze. I didn't know how to
surrender that part to Him. I couldn't get out of my own way. I wasn't
willing to surrender completely to the program, and learn how to do it
someone else's way -- someone else who had been sober a long time and
was willing to show me how.

I don't know what more I might be able to do to help you personally. I
have spent a lot of time writing this response, in the hopes that
something will spark for you. I hope it does, but if not, at least I
have had to reread what I wrote. Your experience has helped me today,
and I hope I can be of help to you.

Please remember, you are going to see a lot of crap in A.A. There are
a lot of people with their heads up their asses. However, the
organization as a whole has a lot to offer. Find a group that's not
carrying a watered-down message, but make sure they're not Step Nazis
either. Find a group that's serious about staying sober, but can laugh
and have fun. Find a group that's intense on doing Stepwork, but are
easy-going. Find a group that are dedicated to seeking God, but
recognize and admit their own faults and defects of character.

An A.A. group like this will have someone, perhaps several, in there
who has something you want. He will be poised, confident, and know a
lot about alcoholism. He will have a connection to God you will yearn
for. He will have been sober awhile. You may not have anything in
common, but you will respect him for the way he treats those around
him. Ask him to be your sponsor, ask him to read the first 164 pages
of the Big Book with you and guide you through the Steps. Make certain
he has done them that way himself, after all, he can't give something
to you he himself does not possess.

Commit yourself to doing all 12 Steps thoroughly and in succession. If
you can't make that commitment, then do none at all. Noone wants to
know what it's like to get stuck half way. They are far too powerful.
The Steps are not magic, they are an experience. Half an experience is
half of nothing, or worse. Don't forget this! When you complete the
Steps, you will come out the other side completely changed. It's
guaranteed to work if you dedicate yourself to it. You will have a
working knowledge of yourself. You will understand why it is that you
feel compelled to drink, even when you don't want to. You will
understand how you relate to the world, and how you can feel
comfortable in most situations without a drink. You will have the
opportunity to make right the things from your past that secretly
haunt you every day. A collection of sludge you are probably not even
aware of. Most importantly, you will learn what God means in your
life, and you can develop a relationship with Him that you have never
before experienced, regardless of your upbringing or current
connection with Him. Believe me, I know, I've been there!

Afterwards, you will have the opportunity to reach out to others -- to
help other alcoholics in need. Just as I am doing with you. As I
mentioned, regardless of the outcome, this is what I need for my
program today. This is what helps keep me connected to God, and He is
what keeps me sober. He blesses me as I make good decisions that lead
to positive outcomes.

Please let me know if you have questions. I wish you all the best.
Getting sober is possible if you want it badly enough, and can let
others help you.

Good luck and God be with you,

Mike Turner

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:26 -0000, skylashai@gmail.com wrote:

>I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
>revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
>Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
>during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
>drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
>Like clockwork.
> I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
>hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
>drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
>since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
>my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
>ahead and drink the next day.
> I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
>family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
>to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
>At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
>I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
>when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
>past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
>had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
>say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
>of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
>tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
> I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
>that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
>started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
>hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
>at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
>for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
>now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
>that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
>you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
>out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
> I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
>else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
>week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
>great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
>very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
>myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
>know this, it's only the start of another binge.
> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
>have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
>the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
>the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
>they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
>sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
>know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
>me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
>this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
>it.
> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
>astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
>stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
>afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
>been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
>also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
>anybody else.
> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
>in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
>various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
>it's eerie.
> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
>to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
>church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
>what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
>scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
>risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
>shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.
>

What fool told you you have a disease? Don't worry, you're probably
just an ass who's picked up a bad habit that a little minor lifestyle
alteration will likely solve, which is the overwhelming preponderance
of what passes for 'alcoholism' these days... Which is okay because
then you can just do time in some ra ra born again clinique du jour,
like meetings or whatever, axe your lifelong friends, avoid anything
that's any fun, maintain your self mirage and go about your business.

Whereas an alcoholic, on the other hand, after trying all those other
cures that are so loudly touted as beneficial (to nonalcoholics), in
order to find something substantial by which he might live, might
actually have to face his drunkass panicked self, learn hard despite
his better sense the meaning of true tolerance and good will toward
others through endless labor and self-sacrifice, or sign his own death
warrant.

But you could probly just get some pills.


--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.9 Beta 2
Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -

rock@wilemail.com wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:26 -0000, skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
>> revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
>> Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
>> during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
>> drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
>> Like clockwork.
>> I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
>> hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
>> drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
>> since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
>> my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
>> ahead and drink the next day.
>> I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
>> family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
>> to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
>> At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
>> I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
>> when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
>> past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
>> had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
>> say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
>> of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
>> tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
>> I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
>> that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
>> started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
>> hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
>> at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
>> for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
>> now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
>> that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
>> you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
>> out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
>> I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
>> else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
>> week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
>> great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
>> very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
>> myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
>> know this, it's only the start of another binge.
>> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>> doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>> and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
>> have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>> but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
>> the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
>> the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
>> they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
>> sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
>> know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
>> me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
>> this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
>> it.
>> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
>> astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
>> stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
>> afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
>> been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
>> also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
>> anybody else.
>> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
>> in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
>> various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
>> it's eerie.
>> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
>> to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
>> church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
>> what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
>> scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
>> risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
>> shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
>> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.
>>
>
> What fool told you you have a disease? Don't worry, you're probably
> just an ass who's picked up a bad habit that a little minor lifestyle
> alteration will likely solve, which is the overwhelming preponderance
> of what passes for 'alcoholism' these days... Which is okay because
> then you can just do time in some ra ra born again clinique du jour,
> like meetings or whatever, axe your lifelong friends, avoid anything
> that's any fun, maintain your self mirage and go about your business.
>
> Whereas an alcoholic, on the other hand, after trying all those other
> cures that are so loudly touted as beneficial (to nonalcoholics), in
> order to find something substantial by which he might live, might
> actually have to face his drunkass panicked self, learn hard despite
> his better sense the meaning of true tolerance and good will toward
> others through endless labor and self-sacrifice, or sign his own death
> warrant.
>
> But you could probly just get some pills.
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------- --- -- -
> Posted with NewsLeecher v3.9 Beta 2
> Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
> ------------------- ----- ---- -- -
>
The non-alcoholic will never
understand the alcoholic, which is
why it takes one drunk talking to
another drunk.

Right on Gill.

To get sober and happy (as opposed to straight and miserable and a total
asshole) I had to get over myself. Worrying about babies and saving others
and suddenly being the AA guy of the year was exactly that; thinking about
myself too much.

Can I assume from your not mentioning him that you don't have a sponsor? And
I would define a sponsor as a spiritual advisor who's worked the steps and
that you trust.

And somebody you don't lie to.Like about drinking or drugging. It's not what
you do, man -- it's why you do it.

What you're telling us is that you've been in the rooms for years and still
haven't stopped lying. Lying and drinking are equally destructive. I've been
somebody who lied because they drank and drank because they lied about
something. It ain't fun.

To me, at least. I can't tell you anything; I can only share what's happened
to me -- but what you're doing is common in the rooms, and known to have
happened to other people working as sponsors. Sponsees lie; they're not
sober yet. If they get sober, they're really likely to stop lying.

I speak as the best liar you've ever met. I was making loads of money, had a
beautiful wife, lived in a gorgeous house, and would lie about what color
gum I got out of the machine 20 seconds ago in front of you.

But I hope that you can find the strength to be honest with yourself. Hell
-- you've been soooo close all these years to being really happy with
yourself and everything else. Just let go.


Gary in tampa



On 10/17/07 9:14 AM, in article
x7ednaf5VeOelovanZ2dnUVZ_qelnZ2d@comcast.com, "GILL" wrote:

> rock@wilemail.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:26:26 -0000, skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
>>> revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
>>> Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
>>> during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
>>> drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
>>> Like clockwork.
>>> I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
>>> hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
>>> drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
>>> since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
>>> my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
>>> ahead and drink the next day.
>>> I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
>>> family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
>>> to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
>>> At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
>>> I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
>>> when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
>>> past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
>>> had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
>>> say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
>>> of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
>>> tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
>>> I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
>>> that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
>>> started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
>>> hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
>>> at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
>>> for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
>>> now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
>>> that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
>>> you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
>>> out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
>>> I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
>>> else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
>>> week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
>>> great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
>>> very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
>>> myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
>>> know this, it's only the start of another binge.
>>> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>>> doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>>> and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
>>> have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>>> but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
>>> the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
>>> the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
>>> they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
>>> sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
>>> know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
>>> me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
>>> this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
>>> it.
>>> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
>>> astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
>>> stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
>>> afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
>>> been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
>>> also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
>>> anybody else.
>>> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
>>> in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
>>> various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
>>> it's eerie.
>>> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
>>> to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
>>> church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
>>> what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
>>> scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
>>> risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
>>> shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
>>> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.
>>>
>>
>> What fool told you you have a disease? Don't worry, you're probably
>> just an ass who's picked up a bad habit that a little minor lifestyle
>> alteration will likely solve, which is the overwhelming preponderance
>> of what passes for 'alcoholism' these days... Which is okay because
>> then you can just do time in some ra ra born again clinique du jour,
>> like meetings or whatever, axe your lifelong friends, avoid anything
>> that's any fun, maintain your self mirage and go about your business.
>>
>> Whereas an alcoholic, on the other hand, after trying all those other
>> cures that are so loudly touted as beneficial (to nonalcoholics), in
>> order to find something substantial by which he might live, might
>> actually have to face his drunkass panicked self, learn hard despite
>> his better sense the meaning of true tolerance and good will toward
>> others through endless labor and self-sacrifice, or sign his own death
>> warrant.
>>
>> But you could probly just get some pills.
>>
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------- --- -- -
>> Posted with NewsLeecher v3.9 Beta 2
>> Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
>> ------------------- ----- ---- -- -
>>
> The non-alcoholic will never
> understand the alcoholic, which is
> why it takes one drunk talking to
> another drunk.

On Oct 10, 7:26 am, skylas...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. > Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.



Gary,


Here's from a post I did some time ago...been sober and living large
since March....no meetings...no peer pressure......it works on self
reliance......once you read the book you will understand !

================================================== ==================

There is nothing wrong with you !

Until you can recognize that your mid-brain is controlling your upper
brain (your intelligence, the real you) your will be hopelessly
addicted. The mid-brain thinks that it needs alcohol as it needs air,
food, or water. This is a natural function for the mid-brain (Beast)
that it learned in early stages of drinking. There is no "disease" of
alcoholism , only alcohol addiction.


The key is to recognize the "addictive voice" when the Beast is
attempting to convince you that it needs a drink. A permanent
comittment to "The Big Plan", that is to permanent abstinence quiets
the Beast when you consciencely reafirm it to the Beast "I never
drink
ever". It then goes away as if a dog gets yelled at and whimpers.


A $13 book (Rational Recovery) my daughter bought me while in de-tox
has changed my life.


AA's "One Day at a A Time" method perpetuates the addiction. Your are
not powerless. Your upper brain can harness the Beast as a cowboy
tames
the bull.


http://www.rational.org/faq.html


I wish you luck !

~ Vern

There's a poster that a lot of us have seen and know about already. It shows
a long, empty beach with one set of footprints on it. At the bottom of the
poster is a question -- being asked my me when I first saw the poster. It
was my voice saying "Where were you when I needed you God????? I can't see
your footprints; only mine!"

The answer to the question -- my question -- was right underneath that one.

"When you saw one set of footprints on the beach, it was because I was
carrying you"

The footprints were God's, not mine. You aren't here because of an accident.
If you want to stop this madness, and learn who you really are, and why you
drink -- not what you drink, start going to meetings. Keep going to
different ones until -- miraculously -- you'll hear somebody say something
that will floor you. It will be so "you" that you'll want to pass out.

You'll have found a place to go to meetings. Keep going there. Go every
single day for the next few (three) months. Every day -- regardless of what
else you have to do, whether or not Adobe just came out with a new version
of Photoshop (graphic arts joke, for the rest of you) or how shitty you feel
that day. Go to meetings.

When you hear somebody share more than once that you feel might be somebody
you want to talk to about your problem, ask them to be your sponsor. If they
say yes, do whatever they tell you to do. Do what we say if you want what we
have.

I have tears reading your post, man. The sorrow and the pain or so near the
surface. All of us know what it felt like -- it's why we sponsor people --
it's why we spend time writing this stuff to people like you. Because there
is a solution to your problem. All you have to do is go to meetings, find a
sponsor, read the big book, and pray for your ass.

God never turns his/her/its back on you. Never. You're part of this thing
you live in. You're in pain, but there's a happy, joyous, and free life for
you -- find it. It's in the rooms -- ask any of us.

Gary poyssick in tampa, florida


On 10/10/07 7:26 AM, in article
1192015586.967512.18520@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.c om, "skylashai@gmail.com"
wrote:

> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. God, is feels
> revolting just typing that, I never thought of it this way before.
> Anyway, I have this pattern that happens over and over. I am sober
> during the week, when I work, then on the weekends I binge. I'll
> drink a bunch, eat, go to sleep, wake up and start drinking again.
> Like clockwork.
> I have a great job, I'm a graphic designer. The thing is, I work 32
> hours per week and then do freelance on the side. It's so easy to
> drink while doing freelance work from home, like a little party. And
> since I have three days off in a row, even if I don't drink on what is
> my Friday night, I'll convince myself that I'm OK and that i can go
> ahead and drink the next day.
> I always know what the result will be. Misery. I do it anyway. My
> family knows about this, so does my doctor. A few years back I had go
> to the ER in an ambulance for delirium tremens after I tried to quit.
> At that point I had switched from beer to the so-called devil's rum.
> I mixed it with coke (the soft drink, not the drug), and to this day
> when I drink a straight coke I can almost smell the rum in it from the
> past, that's how bad I got. This was right after September 11 2001, I
> had not eaten in seven days, consumed nothing but rum. Needless to
> say, that day in the ER was, without question, the most horrific day
> of my life. I thought I was going to die and I was terrified. Blood
> tests and an EKG revealed no health problems. Lucky guy, right?
> I told my mom I was thinking about becoming a Christian. She said
> that was great, but I haven't been to church yet, although I have
> started reading the Bible. You know those little copies that people
> hand out at universities, I moved recently and found a really old one
> at the bottom of a box. I used to have great disdain for religion but
> for some reason, years ago, I kept that Bible. It's next to my bed
> now, sometimes I even take it with me to work. My mom once told me
> that if you turn your back on God he also turns his back on you and
> you become nothing. It's just silly mythology, right? As it turns
> out, those were the most true words ever spoken to me.
> I ceaselessly wonder how somebody who has control over everything
> else in life cannot say no to alcohol. I've told myself, week after
> week, I'm not going to sign online and talk to my friend, who is a
> great guy but another big drinker. And each Saturday, right at the
> very end, the phone rings and I say yes. And, like clockwork, I tell
> myself I'll only have a couple beers and go home and then, you already
> know this, it's only the start of another binge.
> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
> doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
> and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
> have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
> but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies. This was
> the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
> the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
> they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
> sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
> know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
> me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
> this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
> it.
> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
> astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
> stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
> afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
> been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
> also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
> anybody else.
> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
> in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
> various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
> it's eerie.
> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
> to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
> church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
> what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
> scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
> risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
> shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.
>