I'm glad that it worked for you. I've read RR and it didn't do a thing for
me. If I could have quit without some sort of emotional and spiritual
re-thinking, I would have. So would about ten million other people who died
attempting to just 'stop drinking and say no'

I'm not an AA-head to speak, but whatever works for one person is what they
need to do. There's gurus being born every day in India.

g


On 10/29/07 8:31 AM, in article
1193661071.862241.26130@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.co m, "Vern" wrote:

> On Oct 10, 7:26 am, skylas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. > Curse this disease.
>> Thank you for listening.
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
>
> Here's from a post I did some time ago...been sober and living large
> since March....no meetings...no peer pressure......it works on self
> reliance......once you read the book you will understand !
>
> ================================================== ==================
>
> There is nothing wrong with you !
>
> Until you can recognize that your mid-brain is controlling your upper
> brain (your intelligence, the real you) your will be hopelessly
> addicted. The mid-brain thinks that it needs alcohol as it needs air,
> food, or water. This is a natural function for the mid-brain (Beast)
> that it learned in early stages of drinking. There is no "disease" of
> alcoholism , only alcohol addiction.
>
>
> The key is to recognize the "addictive voice" when the Beast is
> attempting to convince you that it needs a drink. A permanent
> comittment to "The Big Plan", that is to permanent abstinence quiets
> the Beast when you consciencely reafirm it to the Beast "I never
> drink
> ever". It then goes away as if a dog gets yelled at and whimpers.
>
>
> A $13 book (Rational Recovery) my daughter bought me while in de-tox
> has changed my life.
>
>
> AA's "One Day at a A Time" method perpetuates the addiction. Your are
> not powerless. Your upper brain can harness the Beast as a cowboy
> tames
> the bull.
>
>
> http://www.rational.org/faq.html
>
>
> I wish you luck !
>
> ~ Vern
>
>
>
>
>
>

hey vern, first you suggest there's nothing wrong, then you go on to
describe how one area of the brain is controlling another.
can you really heal a malfunctioning mind using a malfunctioning mind, or do
we need a souce of power other than that?

If the upper brain can "harness" the lower brain, how did it get "harnessed"
in the first place?
"Vern" <VLfarmer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1193661071.862241.26130@v3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
> On Oct 10, 7:26 am, skylas...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. > Curse this disease.
>> Thank you for listening.
>
>
>
> Gary,
>
>
> Here's from a post I did some time ago...been sober and living large
> since March....no meetings...no peer pressure......it works on self
> reliance......once you read the book you will understand !
>
> ================================================== ==================
>
> There is nothing wrong with you !
>
> Until you can recognize that your mid-brain is controlling your upper
> brain (your intelligence, the real you) your will be hopelessly
> addicted. The mid-brain thinks that it needs alcohol as it needs air,
> food, or water. This is a natural function for the mid-brain (Beast)
> that it learned in early stages of drinking. There is no "disease" of
> alcoholism , only alcohol addiction.
>
>
> The key is to recognize the "addictive voice" when the Beast is
> attempting to convince you that it needs a drink. A permanent
> comittment to "The Big Plan", that is to permanent abstinence quiets
> the Beast when you consciencely reafirm it to the Beast "I never
> drink
> ever". It then goes away as if a dog gets yelled at and whimpers.
>
>
> A $13 book (Rational Recovery) my daughter bought me while in de-tox
> has changed my life.
>
>
> AA's "One Day at a A Time" method perpetuates the addiction. Your are
> not powerless. Your upper brain can harness the Beast as a cowboy
> tames
> the bull.
>
>
> http://www.rational.org/faq.html
>
>
> I wish you luck !
>
> ~ Vern
>
>
>
>
>
>

The RR argument is solid for a lot of people, Vern. There are certainly good
things in the book. I've never read any book about bad behavior that didn't
have something good to say.

On the other hand, I've met a lot of long-time dry drunks who had
'rationally recovered' by keeping booze out of their mouths.

The problem was that they were miserable when they were drinking, and they
stay miserable after they quit. I'm sure I'm not the only guy in here that's
tried 1400 ways to quit drinking before I admitted that I had problems way
way deeper than drinking.

If that wasn't true, I would be drunk right now, instead of thanking God for
AA rooms and the losers (LOLOLOLOL) I thought -- when I got there -- they
were filled with. Losers like the wonderful brothers and sisters that looked
me in the eye and said "get over it, Gary; you're a drunk and if you don't
get over you denial of the root problem(s), you're going to stay that way."

Thank God for all of you. Even you, Vern and the Rational Recovery movement;
like I said, how you get sober doesn't matter.

It's sort of like God -- I don't think it matters exactly what you call
him/her/it -- he'll be there for you if you just ask. In the Bhagavad Gita,
Krishna says to Arjuna "Many are the paths that men take to find me. They
all arrive in time..."

Gary in tampa and so very proud and thankful to God to be considered among
the Losers of this world :-)


On 11/6/07 11:11 AM, in article %m0Yi.4340$8S5.1486@edtnps82, "Stuart"
wrote:

> hey vern, first you suggest there's nothing wrong, then you go on to
> describe how one area of the brain is controlling another.
> can you really heal a malfunctioning mind using a malfunctioning mind, or do
> we need a souce of power other than that?
>
> If the upper brain can "harness" the lower brain, how did it get "harnessed"
> in the first place?
> "Vern" <VLfarmer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1193661071.862241.26130@v3g2000hsg.googlegrou ps.com...
>> On Oct 10, 7:26 am, skylas...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I've been drinking for a while, about 16 years. > Curse this disease.
>>> Thank you for listening.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary,
>>
>>
>> Here's from a post I did some time ago...been sober and living large
>> since March....no meetings...no peer pressure......it works on self
>> reliance......once you read the book you will understand !
>>
>> ================================================== ==================
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with you !
>>
>> Until you can recognize that your mid-brain is controlling your upper
>> brain (your intelligence, the real you) your will be hopelessly
>> addicted. The mid-brain thinks that it needs alcohol as it needs air,
>> food, or water. This is a natural function for the mid-brain (Beast)
>> that it learned in early stages of drinking. There is no "disease" of
>> alcoholism , only alcohol addiction.
>>
>>
>> The key is to recognize the "addictive voice" when the Beast is
>> attempting to convince you that it needs a drink. A permanent
>> comittment to "The Big Plan", that is to permanent abstinence quiets
>> the Beast when you consciencely reafirm it to the Beast "I never
>> drink
>> ever". It then goes away as if a dog gets yelled at and whimpers.
>>
>>
>> A $13 book (Rational Recovery) my daughter bought me while in de-tox
>> has changed my life.
>>
>>
>> AA's "One Day at a A Time" method perpetuates the addiction. Your are
>> not powerless. Your upper brain can harness the Beast as a cowboy
>> tames
>> the bull.
>>
>>
>> http://www.rational.org/faq.html
>>
>>
>> I wish you luck !
>>
>> ~ Vern
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
<SNIP>
> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
> doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
> and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
> have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
> but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.

"How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates from
Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
discusses why some people do not use AA.





> This was
> the most backwards thing I have ever seen aside from when I look into
> the mirror. People are trying to save themselves from alcoholism and
> they are smoking? The second time, somebody tried to arrange a
> sponsor for me. So, I'm speaking with this man on the phone, and you
> know, he was kind of a jerk. I never called him back. It just made
> me feel like I should not be trying to rely on somebody else to solve
> this for me. I know how bad it is and it's my responsibility to end
> it.
> Especially after the nightmare I experienced with DT, it is
> astonishing that I would even go near alcohol. I have considered
> stopping talking to my friend, whom I mentioned earlier, but I am
> afraid of hurting his feelings. We've known each other for 16 years,
> been best friends. Maybe it's no small coincidence that 16 years is
> also the time I have had a drinking problem. But I can't blame him or
> anybody else.
> The only solace I have found is in the last place I looked, which is
> in faith and God. I spent part of my evening last night reading the
> various posts on this group and the stories I read sound so familiar,
> it's eerie.
> Some people can have a drink now and then. I can't. I have applied
> to volunteer at a hospital, and told my mom I am available for her
> church when they go out and help people. I'm afraid that no matter
> what I do, this can come back and nail me at any given time. It's
> scary. I can be sober for over a year and I know I'll always be at
> risk. Both of my dad's parents died from it, which pretty clearly
> shows I am genetically predisposed to this affliction.
> Curse this disease. Thank you for listening.

Stephanie wrote:
> skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
> > doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
> > and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
> > have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
> > but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.
>
> "How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates from
> Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
> discusses why some people do not use AA.

I am new here too. I have a coworker whose wife is an alcoholic.
When she drinks,
she turns violent. She recently bit his hand! This has caused the co-
worker to
consider divorcing her. How do I talk her into quitting?

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:50:44 -0800 (PST), tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us
wrote:

>
>
>Stephanie wrote:
>> skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>> > I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>> > doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>> > and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
>> > have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>> > but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.
>>
>> "How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates from
>> Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
>> discusses why some people do not use AA.
>
>I am new here too. I have a coworker whose wife is an alcoholic.
>When she drinks,
>she turns violent. She recently bit his hand! This has caused the co-
>worker to
>consider divorcing her. How do I talk her into quitting?


Quit what biting? Tell him to bite her back.

One day at a time
Daveb

DaveB wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:50:44 -0800 (PST), tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Stephanie wrote:
> >> skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
> >> <SNIP>
> >> > I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
> >> > doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
> >> > and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is. I
> >> > have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
> >> > but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.
> >>
> >> "How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates from
> >> Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
> >> discusses why some people do not use AA.
> >
> >I am new here too. I have a coworker whose wife is an alcoholic.
> >When she drinks,
> >she turns violent. She recently bit his hand! This has caused the co-
> >worker to
> >consider divorcing her. How do I talk her into quitting?
>
>
> Quit what biting? Tell him to bite her back.

Quit drinking!

"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:47A02A3E.DD686154@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>
>
> DaveB wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:50:44 -0800 (PST), tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >Stephanie wrote:
>> >> skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> <SNIP>
>> >> > I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>> >> > doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>> >> > and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is.
>> >> > I
>> >> > have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>> >> > but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.
>> >>
>> >> "How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates
>> >> from
>> >> Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
>> >> discusses why some people do not use AA.
>> >
>> >I am new here too. I have a coworker whose wife is an alcoholic.
>> >When she drinks,
>> >she turns violent. She recently bit his hand! This has caused the co-
>> >worker to
>> >consider divorcing her. How do I talk her into quitting?
>>
>>
>> Quit what biting? Tell him to bite her back.
>
> Quit drinking!
>

Tim are you serious or is this a joke of yours.

Muddle wrote:

> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:47A02A3E.DD686154@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> >
> >
> > DaveB wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:50:44 -0800 (PST), tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Stephanie wrote:
> >> >> skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >> <SNIP>
> >> >> > I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
> >> >> > doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
> >> >> > and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
> >> >> > but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.
> >> >>
> >> >> "How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates
> >> >> from
> >> >> Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
> >> >> discusses why some people do not use AA.
> >> >
> >> >I am new here too. I have a coworker whose wife is an alcoholic.
> >> >When she drinks,
> >> >she turns violent. She recently bit his hand! This has caused the co-
> >> >worker to
> >> >consider divorcing her. How do I talk her into quitting?
> >>
> >>
> >> Quit what biting? Tell him to bite her back.
> >
> > Quit drinking!
> >
>
> Tim are you serious or is this a joke of yours.

I am seriously asking how you persuade an alcoholic to quit drinking.

Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> Muddle wrote:
>
>> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>> news:47A02A3E.DD686154@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>>>
>>> DaveB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:50:44 -0800 (PST), tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephanie wrote:
>>>>>> skylashai@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>>> I hate alcohol. I don't need it in my life, don't want it. My
>>>>>>> doctor told me I was self-medicating for mild anxiety. I read a lot
>>>>>>> and I know how dangerous it is, how it works, how insidious it is.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> have tried AA twice and left very quickly. I decided I needed help
>>>>>>> but the people at AA were smoking, and around their babies.
>>>>>> "How to Quit Drinking without AA by Jerry Dorsman lists alternates
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Rational Recovery, SOS to do-it-yourselferism. I am reading it now. It
>>>>>> discusses why some people do not use AA.
>>>>> I am new here too. I have a coworker whose wife is an alcoholic.
>>>>> When she drinks,
>>>>> she turns violent. She recently bit his hand! This has caused the co-
>>>>> worker to
>>>>> consider divorcing her. How do I talk her into quitting?
>>>>
>>>> Quit what biting? Tell him to bite her back.
>>> Quit drinking!
>>>
>> Tim are you serious or is this a joke of yours.
>
> I am seriously asking how you persuade an alcoholic to quit drinking.
>

You don't, unless your disapproval is worse for the alcoholic to take
than any alternative. E.g., for some, having one's family not want to
have anything to do with one is enough of a crisis to inspire getting
help. For others, this isn't enough. Do you think your disapproval of
your friend's wife's drinking will be enough to inspire her? I don't
know your relationship with her, but I kind of doubt it. If you could
convince her that she's about to lose everyone and everything she cares
about, it just might give her a nudge.