I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless jerks
that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
everything. There might be a couple people in here that are
legit...Stuart...even though you talk out of both sides of your mouth....you
do seem to be sincere. I gave an opinion...plain and simple....I got
back.....verbal abuse. I did not initiate any of it. That is not "alcoholic"
behavior....nor do I think some the stupid responses in here are "alcoholic"
behavior...hell....you can find this crap all over the internet. I was just
hoping that intelligent conversation and differences of opinion could have
occurred.....I was wrong.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of them
all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Vw4Ka.10262$Fy6.3589@sccrnsc03...
> I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
> somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless jerks
> that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
> everything.


"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:fwuJa.755946$Si4.891802@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att .net...
> I don't know......maybe the guys that I've supervised..oh...only been
doing
> this for 28 years...kinda a neophyte I guess.....

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
newsaSFa.912799$OV.847117@rwcrnsc54...
> Two months of sobriety...that's the good news.

Yes, clearly you are a neophyte

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:vlOHa.974905$OV.1076346@rwcrnsc54...
> First of all, The Big Book has been bastardized so much since Bill
Wilson's
> original 90 meetings in 90 days.

The 90 day concept is attributed by at least one historian (if I recall
correctly, http://www.historyofaa.com/ ) to power trippers subsequent to
Bill Wilson during emergence of the "treatment industry" of which our Rosie
is a proud example. It sure aint in the Big Book basic text, and never was.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q41832A05

The Big Book "basic text" has not been bastardised, yet. Scattered amongst
it's gems is the same bullshit from the first edition, though it took me a
lot longer than 90 days to discover that.

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3hlIa.34280$Fa6.20708@sccrnsc02...
but I will take control of my own destiny.

"but I will" ? Oh yeah, yet another expert with vast experience ............
at being a "would be!"

"The same mindless jerks that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave
about anything and everything.

Believing I hold no expectations of anything other than speculation in non
technical newsgroups, I do learn a lot about myself here. Have you tried
approaching from that perspective?

Guess if you have read this far, you may even have started!

Bob

>.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of them
> all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!
>
>

i am sorry that you did not take the time to truly get to know me.
you never used my email addy, but you still can if you wish.
there are just a couple folks in here who feel as you do!

does that mean that everyone else is all wrong?
think about it.................

best of everything to you anyway!
rosie

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Vw4Ka.10262$Fy6.3589@sccrnsc03...
> I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
> somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless jerks
> that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
> everything. There might be a couple people in here that are
> legit... I gave an opinion...plain and simple....I got
> back.....verbal abuse. I did not initiate any of it. That is not
"alcoholic"
> behavior....nor do I think some the stupid responses in here are
"alcoholic"
> behavior...hell....you can find this crap all over the internet. I was
just
> hoping that intelligent conversation and differences of opinion could have
> occurred.....I was wrong.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of them
> all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!
>
>

Awwwww. Sniff.

In order for you to be involved in intelligent conversation, you'd have to
be able to hold up your end of the bargain.

Read your own quote here: "Stuart...even though you talk out of both sides
of your mouth....you do seem to be sincere."

Huhhhhhhh?

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ey6Ka.148798$jT4.2658872@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> >.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of them
> > all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!
> >
> >
>
> i am sorry that you did not take the time to truly get to know me.
> you never used my email addy, but you still can if you wish.
> there are just a couple folks in here who feel as you do!
>
> does that mean that everyone else is all wrong?
> think about it.................
>

From: "rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
Message-ID: < wkHa.22568$fe.447991@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:31:22 GMT

YES, whatever works!
i belong to the "old school" of counting sobriety from the LAST drink/drug,
but i don't expect
everyone to do so, just because i did!

it works for me!
"rosie@readandpost" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<ZPSl5.19140$E05.340458@nntp0.chicago.il.amer itech.net>

>i am thinking about asking my pdoc to increase my celexa to
>60mg..........anyone else in here have good results with that dosage?
>my 40mg seems to be "pooping out"...........

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message news:Vw4Ka.10262$Fy6.3589@sccrnsc03...
> I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
> somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless jerks
> that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
> everything. There might be a couple people in here that are
> legit...Stuart...even though you talk out of both sides of your mouth....you
> do seem to be sincere. I gave an opinion...plain and simple....I got
> back.....verbal abuse. I did not initiate any of it. That is not "alcoholic"
> behavior....nor do I think some the stupid responses in here are "alcoholic"
> behavior...hell....you can find this crap all over the internet. I was just
> hoping that intelligent conversation and differences of opinion could have
> occurred.....I was wrong.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of them
> all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!
>
Hi JJ,

I agree with you. I find many of the posts here of no use what so ever as sources of help for my
alcoholism. If you are leaving the group, I am sorry. If you are genuinely tryng to give up
drinking (as I believe you are), I hope you will continue in your quest. I know you don't judge all
recovering alcoholics by the behaviour of some of those on this group and hope that very soon you
find in the outside world ones who are genuinely supportive.

I wish you well and once again say how sorry I am that you didn't find the help here that you hoped
you would.

Very best wishes

JB.,

A lesson for us all in that one

Thanks

debs

--
Illegitimi non Carborundum
"stuart" <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote in message
news:HsfKa.28480$Mc4.4685052@news0.telusplanet.net ...
>
> "JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:Vw4Ka.10262$Fy6.3589@sccrnsc03...
> > I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
> > somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless jerks
> > that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
> > everything. There might be a couple people in here that are
> > legit...Stuart...even though you talk out of both sides of your
> mouth....you
> > do seem to be sincere. I gave an opinion...plain and simple....I got
> > back.....verbal abuse. I did not initiate any of it. That is not
> "alcoholic"
> > behavior....nor do I think some the stupid responses in here are
> "alcoholic"
> > behavior...hell....you can find this crap all over the internet. I was
> just
> > hoping that intelligent conversation and differences of opinion could
have
> > occurred.....I was wrong.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of
them
> > all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!
>
> The truth is merely what we perceive it to be JJ. Our perceptions are
> everything. I was being honest with you, not abusive. Unfortunately, and
> probably predictably, you perceived abuse. I was attempting to describe
> alcoholic behaviour to you for your benefit JJ, so you might either
identify
> with it, or not, strictly in an academic hypothetical sense.
> I don't know you, and have no need to abuse you. You can not see my
method,
> because you are still sick.
>
> I will have more more attempt at connecting with you JJ.
>
> Now you take your post above. You have taken my inventory, you took
Rosie's.
> You tell us you see a bunch of phony mind- game players. Have you ever
> thought that taking a good clean look at your own hand in it might be also
> useful? Have you thought your reaction a bit self-centered? All about YOU?
> All about YOUR feelings? All about YOUR reaction? YOU are the good guy WE
> are the bad guys? You are the innocent enquirer, we are the jerks.
>
> Do you think, by this above comment, that I was attempting to hurt your
> feelings? Or was I lovingly trying to show you something that I see? If
what
> I just typed evoked some indignation, or mild anger, I have made my point.
> It was my intent you consider what I said seriously, but not take it
> personally. The day you can begin to do this is the day your recovery will
> begin.
>
> Fact of the matter is JJ., no matter how you slice it, if you have a
problem
> with the booze, and you want to stay stopped from drinking, like ALL the
> rest of us you'll probably need to do some work on yourself. There's no
> shame in that, it is not a sign of weakness. Contrarily, it is a sign of
> strength, to be able to concentrate on one's own weakness, and not so much
> in the faults of others, real or perceived.
>
> Now, you can respond by telling me off, telling me to go fuck myself,
> telling me what a misguided jerk I am, that it doesn't pertain to you, or
> whatever. That's not going to bother me a bit, JJ. What I can tell you, is
> that in my particular case, I needed to do some work to recover. Part of
> that process was learning where I had been mistaken about the truth about
> myself, and my own behaviour. Perhaps you could too, and you might start
to
> feel better, stronger....
>
>

I'll third that
"debs" <debs172@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bdc3ei$f9n$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> A lesson for us all in that one
>
> Thanks
>
> debs
>
> --
> Illegitimi non Carborundum
> "stuart" <fred@outerspace.jetsons> wrote in message
> news:HsfKa.28480$Mc4.4685052@news0.telusplanet.net ...
> >
> > "JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:Vw4Ka.10262$Fy6.3589@sccrnsc03...
> > > I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
> > > somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless
jerks
> > > that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
> > > everything. There might be a couple people in here that are
> > > legit...Stuart...even though you talk out of both sides of your
> > mouth....you
> > > do seem to be sincere. I gave an opinion...plain and simple....I got
> > > back.....verbal abuse. I did not initiate any of it. That is not
> > "alcoholic"
> > > behavior....nor do I think some the stupid responses in here are
> > "alcoholic"
> > > behavior...hell....you can find this crap all over the internet. I was
> > just
> > > hoping that intelligent conversation and differences of opinion could
> have
> > > occurred.....I was wrong.....and Rosie? You are the phoniness one of
> them
> > > all. You slip and slid play mind games...shame on YOU!
> >
> > The truth is merely what we perceive it to be JJ. Our perceptions are
> > everything. I was being honest with you, not abusive. Unfortunately, and
> > probably predictably, you perceived abuse. I was attempting to describe
> > alcoholic behaviour to you for your benefit JJ, so you might either
> identify
> > with it, or not, strictly in an academic hypothetical sense.
> > I don't know you, and have no need to abuse you. You can not see my
> method,
> > because you are still sick.
> >
> > I will have more more attempt at connecting with you JJ.
> >
> > Now you take your post above. You have taken my inventory, you took
> Rosie's.
> > You tell us you see a bunch of phony mind- game players. Have you ever
> > thought that taking a good clean look at your own hand in it might be
also
> > useful? Have you thought your reaction a bit self-centered? All about
YOU?
> > All about YOUR feelings? All about YOUR reaction? YOU are the good guy
WE
> > are the bad guys? You are the innocent enquirer, we are the jerks.
> >
> > Do you think, by this above comment, that I was attempting to hurt your
> > feelings? Or was I lovingly trying to show you something that I see? If
> what
> > I just typed evoked some indignation, or mild anger, I have made my
point.
> > It was my intent you consider what I said seriously, but not take it
> > personally. The day you can begin to do this is the day your recovery
will
> > begin.
> >
> > Fact of the matter is JJ., no matter how you slice it, if you have a
> problem
> > with the booze, and you want to stay stopped from drinking, like ALL the
> > rest of us you'll probably need to do some work on yourself. There's no
> > shame in that, it is not a sign of weakness. Contrarily, it is a sign of
> > strength, to be able to concentrate on one's own weakness, and not so
much
> > in the faults of others, real or perceived.
> >
> > Now, you can respond by telling me off, telling me to go fuck myself,
> > telling me what a misguided jerk I am, that it doesn't pertain to you,
or
> > whatever. That's not going to bother me a bit, JJ. What I can tell you,
is
> > that in my particular case, I needed to do some work to recover. Part of
> > that process was learning where I had been mistaken about the truth
about
> > myself, and my own behaviour. Perhaps you could too, and you might start
> to
> > feel better, stronger....
> >
> >
>
>

"JJ" <jakervik@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Vw4Ka.10262$Fy6.3589@sccrnsc03...
> I hesitated to even engage in some conversation in this news group. I
> somehow thought it might be different. It isn't. The same mindless jerks
> that sit at the keyboard all day and rant and rave about anything and
> everything. There might be a couple people in here that are
> legit...

Hey JJ,
These "mindless jerks" have helped me to get sober. Robert, Blue, Gail,
Mouse, My Name, Tispe, Shaw...they are *all* legit. I would say there are a
couple in here who bang their own drum and are generally unhelpful...just
dish out the diatribe...but you get that in all ngs.
Deb/Bubba