************************************************** *********

As Bill Sees It

The Step That Keeps Us growing, p.264

Sometimes, when friends tell us how well we are doing, we know
better inside. We know we aren't doing well enough. We still
can't handle life, as life is. There must be a serious flaw
somewhere in our spiritual practice and development.

What, then, is it?

The chances are better than even that we shall locate our trouble in
our misunderstanding or neglect of A.A.'s Step Eleven--prayer,
meditation, and the guidance of God.

The other Steps can keep most of us sober and somehow functioning.
But Step Eleven can keep us growing, if we try hard and work at it
continually.

Grapevine, June 1958

************************************************** *********

readandpostrosie wrote:

>
> The other Steps can keep most of us sober and somehow functioning.
> But Step Eleven can keep us growing, if we try hard and work at it
> continually.

In the following years, this changed. Alcoholics who still had their
health, their
families, their jobs, & even two cars in the garage, began to recognize
their
alcoholism. As this trend grew, they were joined by young people who
were scarcely
more than potential alcoholics. How could people such as these take the
first step?

By going back in our own drinking histories, we showed them that years
before we
realized it we were out of control, that our drinking even then was no
mere habit, that it
was indeed the beginning of a fatal progression.

JimB

"JimB" <jimbuckland@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142966567.819804.148180@z34g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> In the following years, this changed. Alcoholics who still had their
> health, their
> families, their jobs, & even two cars in the garage, began to recognize
> their
> alcoholism. As this trend grew, they were joined by young people who
> were scarcely
> more than potential alcoholics. How could people such as these take the
> first step?
>
> By going back in our own drinking histories, we showed them that years
> before we
> realized it we were out of control, that our drinking even then was no
> mere habit, that it
> was indeed the beginning of a fatal progression.

Fear mongering is indeed a potent recruiting tool. Go back far enough in a
"drinking history" and nearly *everybody* qualifies for membership. Why
should convincing someone they belong in AA even be necessary? Shouldn't it
be completely obvious to everyone without inducement or incitement? Oh
well, "high-bottoms" do usually have deeper pockets to keep the coffers
filled.

"Craig S." <cspurlocktakethisout@takethisoutmtneer.net> wrote in message
news:Fb_Tf.745$Sl.655@fe04.lga...
>
> "JimB" <jimbuckland@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1142966567.819804.148180@z34g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>> In the following years, this changed. Alcoholics who still had their
>> health, their
>> families, their jobs, & even two cars in the garage, began to recognize
>> their
>> alcoholism. As this trend grew, they were joined by young people who
>> were scarcely
>> more than potential alcoholics. How could people such as these take the
>> first step?
>>
>> By going back in our own drinking histories, we showed them that years
>> before we
>> realized it we were out of control, that our drinking even then was no
>> mere habit, that it
>> was indeed the beginning of a fatal progression.
>
> Fear mongering is indeed a potent recruiting tool. Go back far enough in
> a
> "drinking history" and nearly *everybody* qualifies for membership. Why
> should convincing someone they belong in AA even be necessary? Shouldn't
> it
> be completely obvious to everyone without inducement or incitement? Oh
> well, "high-bottoms" do usually have deeper pockets to keep the coffers
> filled.
>
>
How did you get sober Craig?

RonG

"Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
news:0Q_Tf.15$KE1.1@dukeread02...
>
> "Craig S." <cspurlocktakethisout@takethisoutmtneer.net> wrote in message
> news:Fb_Tf.745$Sl.655@fe04.lga...
>>
>> "JimB" <jimbuckland@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1142966567.819804.148180@z34g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>>> In the following years, this changed. Alcoholics who still had their
>>> health, their
>>> families, their jobs, & even two cars in the garage, began to recognize
>>> their
>>> alcoholism. As this trend grew, they were joined by young people who
>>> were scarcely
>>> more than potential alcoholics. How could people such as these take the
>>> first step?
>>>
>>> By going back in our own drinking histories, we showed them that years
>>> before we
>>> realized it we were out of control, that our drinking even then was no
>>> mere habit, that it
>>> was indeed the beginning of a fatal progression.
>>
>> Fear mongering is indeed a potent recruiting tool. Go back far enough in
>> a
>> "drinking history" and nearly *everybody* qualifies for membership. Why
>> should convincing someone they belong in AA even be necessary? Shouldn't
>> it
>> be completely obvious to everyone without inducement or incitement? Oh
>> well, "high-bottoms" do usually have deeper pockets to keep the coffers
>> filled.
>>
>>
> How did you get sober Craig?
>
> RonG
>
>

Hi Ron G, I think what we got here is failure to communicate...
over....

"Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
news:0Q_Tf.15$KE1.1@dukeread02...

> How did you get sober Craig?

Who said I was sober? I just don't drink alcohol. I view it as a personal
choice, not a life or death matter. Nobody's harmed by not drinking in the
same way that nobody is offended by not swearing.

But in answer to your question, I was familiarized with the fellowship when
I decided that "treatment" looked like a better place than where I was at
the time. I consider myself shanghaied in some ways since I was only 17.
My head did get filled with a lot of stuff that, looking back, really didn't
apply and by now is mostly irrelevant. I'm not bitter - I've had a great
life so far. I just feel like I was steered in some directions that relied
of exaggeration and embellishment in order to "fit." I take full
responsibility for making such a heavy personal investment for such a long
period of time. It took me many years to really get honest with myself - in
a direction opposite of what is generally encouraged.

"Craig S." <cspurlocktakethisout@takethisoutmtneer.net> wrote in message
news:6peUf.5$hn6.4@fe05.lga...
> "Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
> news:0Q_Tf.15$KE1.1@dukeread02...
>
>> How did you get sober Craig?
>
> Who said I was sober? I just don't drink alcohol. I view it as a
> personal
> choice, not a life or death matter. Nobody's harmed by not drinking in
> the
> same way that nobody is offended by not swearing.
>
> But in answer to your question, I was familiarized with the fellowship
> when
> I decided that "treatment" looked like a better place than where I was at
> the time. I consider myself shanghaied in some ways since I was only 17.
> My head did get filled with a lot of stuff that, looking back, really
> didn't
> apply and by now is mostly irrelevant. I'm not bitter - I've had a great
> life so far. I just feel like I was steered in some directions that
> relied
> of exaggeration and embellishment in order to "fit." I take full
> responsibility for making such a heavy personal investment for such a long
> period of time. It took me many years to really get honest with myself -
> in
> a direction opposite of what is generally encouraged.
>
>

Thank you Craig for your sharing.

"Craig S." <cspurlocktakethisout@takethisoutmtneer.net> wrote in message
news:6peUf.5$hn6.4@fe05.lga...
> "Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
> news:0Q_Tf.15$KE1.1@dukeread02...
>
>> How did you get sober Craig?
>
> Who said I was sober? I just don't drink alcohol. I view it as a
> personal
> choice, not a life or death matter. Nobody's harmed by not drinking in
> the
> same way that nobody is offended by not swearing.
>
> But in answer to your question, I was familiarized with the fellowship
> when
> I decided that "treatment" looked like a better place than where I was at
> the time. I consider myself shanghaied in some ways since I was only 17.
> My head did get filled with a lot of stuff that, looking back, really
> didn't
> apply and by now is mostly irrelevant. I'm not bitter - I've had a great
> life so far. I just feel like I was steered in some directions that
> relied
> of exaggeration and embellishment in order to "fit." I take full
> responsibility for making such a heavy personal investment for such a long
> period of time. It took me many years to really get honest with myself -
> in
> a direction opposite of what is generally encouraged.
>
>
Good for you. In ways I envy those who have been able to "get it" when they
are young and not make it until much later in life as I did. I sometimes
wonder if I would have been able to make different choices about my drinking
had I been introduced to AA early in my life but I will never know.

RonG

Ron G wrote:
> "Craig S." <cspurlocktakethisout@takethisoutmtneer.net> wrote in message
> news:6peUf.5$hn6.4@fe05.lga...
>> "Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
>> news:0Q_Tf.15$KE1.1@dukeread02...
>>
>>> How did you get sober Craig?
>> Who said I was sober? I just don't drink alcohol. I view it as a
>> personal
>> choice, not a life or death matter. Nobody's harmed by not drinking in
>> the
>> same way that nobody is offended by not swearing.
>>
>> But in answer to your question, I was familiarized with the fellowship
>> when
>> I decided that "treatment" looked like a better place than where I was at
>> the time. I consider myself shanghaied in some ways since I was only 17.
>> My head did get filled with a lot of stuff that, looking back, really
>> didn't
>> apply and by now is mostly irrelevant. I'm not bitter - I've had a great
>> life so far. I just feel like I was steered in some directions that
>> relied
>> of exaggeration and embellishment in order to "fit." I take full
>> responsibility for making such a heavy personal investment for such a long
>> period of time. It took me many years to really get honest with myself -
>> in
>> a direction opposite of what is generally encouraged.
>>
>>
> Good for you. In ways I envy those who have been able to "get it" when they
> are young and not make it until much later in life as I did. I sometimes
> wonder if I would have been able to make different choices about my drinking
> had I been introduced to AA early in my life but I will never know.
>
> RonG

I think most would *not* have "got it." My fathers drinking caused so
much grief and resentment in our family that I swore at an early age I
would *never* drink. When I finally did (senior year) there were a
couple of key missing bits of information. The grasp of the slow
progressive nature and subtle psychological effects (and results) that
came with the territory.

When I saw how quickly I recovered from a night of partying, I just
figured my father must have been different, or *I* was different. It
never occurred to me that in the beginning, he also started out able to
fully recover after a few hours sleep, a cup of coffee and some breakfast.

No one could have explained to *this* angry young man that by drinking
he is slowly but surely falling behind his peers, not living up to his
potential. I would have to find that out in retrospect.

I recall shortly after my second divorce having one of those moments of
clarity and realizing that alcohol and "under the influence" antics had
played a big part in pretty much all of the soap opera situations that
plagued my marriages. Never occurred to me when it was happening. Not
even close. Coming home drunked up at 2:00 A.M. was just a "guy thing."

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:xnnUf.11873$wD1.6792@trnddc02...
> Ron G wrote:
>> "Craig S." <cspurlocktakethisout@takethisoutmtneer.net> wrote in message
>> news:6peUf.5$hn6.4@fe05.lga...
>>> "Ron G" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0Q_Tf.15$KE1.1@dukeread02...
>>>
>>>> How did you get sober Craig?
>>> Who said I was sober? I just don't drink alcohol. I view it as a
>>> personal
>>> choice, not a life or death matter. Nobody's harmed by not drinking in
>>> the
>>> same way that nobody is offended by not swearing.
>>>
>>> But in answer to your question, I was familiarized with the fellowship
>>> when
>>> I decided that "treatment" looked like a better place than where I was
>>> at
>>> the time. I consider myself shanghaied in some ways since I was only
>>> 17.
>>> My head did get filled with a lot of stuff that, looking back, really
>>> didn't
>>> apply and by now is mostly irrelevant. I'm not bitter - I've had a
>>> great
>>> life so far. I just feel like I was steered in some directions that
>>> relied
>>> of exaggeration and embellishment in order to "fit." I take full
>>> responsibility for making such a heavy personal investment for such a
>>> long
>>> period of time. It took me many years to really get honest with
>>> myself - in
>>> a direction opposite of what is generally encouraged.
>>>
>>>
>> Good for you. In ways I envy those who have been able to "get it" when
>> they are young and not make it until much later in life as I did. I
>> sometimes wonder if I would have been able to make different choices
>> about my drinking had I been introduced to AA early in my life but I will
>> never know.
>>
>> RonG
>
> I think most would *not* have "got it." My fathers drinking caused so
> much grief and resentment in our family that I swore at an early age I
> would *never* drink. When I finally did (senior year) there were a couple
> of key missing bits of information. The grasp of the slow progressive
> nature and subtle psychological effects (and results) that came with the
> territory.
>
> When I saw how quickly I recovered from a night of partying, I just
> figured my father must have been different, or *I* was different. It never
> occurred to me that in the beginning, he also started out able to fully
> recover after a few hours sleep, a cup of coffee and some breakfast.
>
> No one could have explained to *this* angry young man that by drinking he
> is slowly but surely falling behind his peers, not living up to his
> potential. I would have to find that out in retrospect.
>
> I recall shortly after my second divorce having one of those moments of
> clarity and realizing that alcohol and "under the influence" antics had
> played a big part in pretty much all of the soap opera situations that
> plagued my marriages. Never occurred to me when it was happening. Not
> even close. Coming home drunked up at 2:00 A.M. was just a "guy thing."


I don't think that the odds were very good that I would have been able to
make it very far into my adult life without drinking.

I grew up in western PA, industrial town and after work it was not uncommon
for the men to leave the factories and go to a bar and drink beer and shots.
My father took me many times along with him and I would bang the balls
around the pool table while the men drank. You remember the early cowboy
movies. The hero almost always wound up in a bar, had a shot of whiskey, got
into a brawl with the bad guys, and won the fight without losing his hat off
of his head. Booze was always a part of the men with family gathering,
fishing, etc. I grew up firmly believing that part of being a man was
drinking.

My only problem in my "early" days was that I could not drink, in that, I
could not hold my booze. Got sick after a couple of beers, passed out, so
over time I forced myself to "learn" how to drink. For the longest time I
could not get more than one shot of whiskey down my throat without gagging
until a bartender added a drop of anisette into the shot. And I suffered
both hangovers and blackouts.

It still rings in my ears when one time I got into some trouble in the Navy
and my boss said to me, "Gierard, you got everything going for you in the
Navy, fast advancement, professional, except when you drink........." and he
left it at that.

With all this, including breakups with my wife, I was convinced that I had
just not learned how to drink "right" and that alcohol was really not the
problem.

It never occurred to me to be any other way and even after my first crack at
AA in 1974, I was still not convinced that alcohol was at the root of most
of my problems. Had to drink another eight years before I got beaten down to
where suicide was the last option open to me to stop the misery.

RonG