NOTES FROM THE OTHER SIDE

By other side, I mean the other side of sober. I've been at the bar and had
a few shots, and feelin' really good. Not "pretty good"... I mean REALLY
good. The demons aren't haunting; the incredibly-serious issues aren't so
incredibly serious, and the future looks bright even at night.

Sheer, liberating peace.

Before you jump all over me, of course I know there are other, better ways
to achieve this nirvana. Suffice it to say that I'm working on it.

And this is the problem I have with simplistic replies like "go back to that
hell?" This is not hell; every drunk knows that. If this were hell it'd be a
no-brainer! This is ukiah. This is bliss. Trying to paint this as hell is
condescending, demeaning, and grossly simplistic.

We are NOT stupid. We are NOT incapable of rational thought. We are NOT
hopeless. This is a g-d good feeling, and to pretend otherwise is quite
obviously ineffective, to put it mildly.

Recognizing the downside DESPITE the euphoria will be my ticket outta
here... but dont ANYBODY tell me this don't feel good.

Comments are very welcome.

Chet

Chet wrote:
> NOTES FROM THE OTHER SIDE
>
> By other side, I mean the other side of sober. I've been at the bar and had
> a few shots, and feelin' really good. Not "pretty good"... I mean REALLY
> good. The demons aren't haunting; the incredibly-serious issues aren't so
> incredibly serious, and the future looks bright even at night.
>
> Sheer, liberating peace.
>
> Before you jump all over me, of course I know there are other, better ways
> to achieve this nirvana. Suffice it to say that I'm working on it.
>
> And this is the problem I have with simplistic replies like "go back to that
> hell?" This is not hell; every drunk knows that. If this were hell it'd be a
> no-brainer! This is ukiah. This is bliss. Trying to paint this as hell is
> condescending, demeaning, and grossly simplistic.
>
> We are NOT stupid. We are NOT incapable of rational thought. We are NOT
> hopeless. This is a g-d good feeling, and to pretend otherwise is quite
> obviously ineffective, to put it mildly.
>
> Recognizing the downside DESPITE the euphoria will be my ticket outta
> here... but dont ANYBODY tell me this don't feel good.
>
> Comments are very welcome.
>
> Chet

Balls!!!!!!!!!!!! you have a pair that is. Best day drunk VS worst
day sober? Best day drunk wins every time! I ended up choosing
moderation, was not prepared to give up wine with dinner, beer with my
dad on hockey night, even the odd solitary shot of scotch in a bar
while i people watch. I don't care anymore if the hordes scream "well..
if you can now drink, you were never an alcoholic" it's a reductionist
argument that does ME no good. Admitting that you enjoy booze is the
best place in the world you can start.If you try "remember when?" and
your memories are fond, well. you are pretty much screwed.

What is it you are getting from the few drinks you had? What else
might you do to get the same feeling? Is it the social aspect of being
at a bar? Is there something going on in your life that is giving you
grief that you need to take a look at? What was the "down side" for
you? Will focusing on that put you back on track?Who are you talking to
for support, and is the support you get consistent with your own values
and thinking about the demon rum? How much do you know about the nature
of alcoholism?

If you are in or around AA, share these thoughts you are having IN
PRIVATE with your sponsor or people in AA close to you. Although i
found much of what i heard in AA trite and overly simplistic, many of
the members were willing to stop spouting the party line, and share
stuff with me about how to deal with my urges that helped to a large
degree, as long as i did not put them on the spot in front of other
members. If you are not in AA, find the people you know who have the
best handle on booze (unless of course, they are total piss tanks) and
stick to them like glue. But don't just sit at a bar alone, full of
fear and lingering doubt, and if you are SURE you are going back out,
enlist a friend to keep you from behind the wheel and out of fistfights
with football players.

Hang in there, there is more than one way to skin a cat, but they
all really f$%k with the cat in the long run
AMB

Chet <fake@email.com> wrote in message
news:4-2dnfGZDLzQ4obZRVn-gw@comcast.com...
> NOTES FROM THE OTHER SIDE
>
> By other side, I mean the other side of sober. I've been at the bar and
had
> a few shots, and feelin' really good. Not "pretty good"... I mean REALLY
> good. The demons aren't haunting; the incredibly-serious issues aren't so
> incredibly serious, and the future looks bright even at night.
>
> Sheer, liberating peace.
>
> Before you jump all over me, of course I know there are other, better ways
> to achieve this nirvana. Suffice it to say that I'm working on it.
>
> And this is the problem I have with simplistic replies like "go back to
that
> hell?" This is not hell; every drunk knows that. If this were hell it'd be
a
> no-brainer! This is ukiah. This is bliss. Trying to paint this as hell is
> condescending, demeaning, and grossly simplistic.
>
> We are NOT stupid. We are NOT incapable of rational thought. We are NOT
> hopeless. This is a g-d good feeling, and to pretend otherwise is quite
> obviously ineffective, to put it mildly.
>
> Recognizing the downside DESPITE the euphoria will be my ticket outta
> here... but dont ANYBODY tell me this don't feel good.
>
> Comments are very welcome.
>
> Chet

Look Chet, no one's gonna jump all over you. My question is that if it was
all utopian, why the need to quit or be here in the first place?
Someone who talks about going back to the hell is someone who is playing the
drinking movie to the end scene. Been there done that. It always ends in
hell, remember?
Problem we have is remembering what booze does for us and to us at the same
time.
For me, its been so long I do not "long for it" Not at all...

Get the Joe and Charlie tapes.

I have to agree with Stuart. Anyone who doesn't recognize the "hell" we
speak of hasn't been there...yet. Maybe you're what I refer to as an
earth person, someone who can continue to drink all his life without it
ever overcoming you. Congratulations, if you are, I envy you.

Yes, I know the good, warm feeling I get when I first start drinking.
The satisfaction of temporarily being oblivious to all my problems and
fears. And for twenty five years, I could get that feeling every night,
get up the next morning, clear the cobwebs and go on about life. But as
time went on, it took more and more booze for me to get to "special
point of relaxation". Eventually it was taking so much, my body began
responding in a very hostile way. Alcohol is poison, just like arsenic
and other poisons. A little bit might not hurt you, but the right
amount will kill you.

When I started waking up, drenched in my own sweat, dry heaving and
shaking so uncontrollably, I couldn't hold a cup of coffee, I had to
take serious measures to continue life's task. And that's when I found
out another drink first thing in the morning would cause these
reactions to gently start to subside. Then, later it took two morning
drinks, then three. I started missing work and not caring about
anything but having plenty of booze on hand. Drinking for days, morning
till night. My wife left, couldn't take it anymore. Kids stayed away,
scared of how they might find me.

And then the terrible day came. The day when those first morning drinks
DID NOT work any longer. The day I would stand over the sink and puke
into my glass of booze trying to force it down. And then the terrible
realization that I was dying and I was alone. That is the "hell" we
speak of and I don't think Chet or Angryblaque has been there. What I
just described can be almost indentically authenicated by any true
alcoholic who has reached his bottom. We are the people who need AA.
The only reason for you to remain or contribute is if you truly want to
avoid this ending in your drinking life.

No one can stop you from posting, but just let me remind you that even
with the hell I've been through, reading your posts about the good
feelings, the highs, the socializing, etc. makes me want to go out and
try it again. I'm strong enough now to know that even one drink will
put me right back to that hellish nightmare in a matter of days. But
there are younger and weaker alcoholics that might also read your post.
Please consider them.

Starvin'Marv wrote:
> I have to agree with Stuart. Anyone who doesn't recognize the "hell" we
> speak of hasn't been there...yet. Maybe you're what I refer to as an
> earth person, someone who can continue to drink all his life without it
> ever overcoming you. Congratulations, if you are, I envy you.
SNIP
> No one can stop you from posting, but just let me remind you that even
> with the hell I've been through, reading your posts about the good
> feelings, the highs, the socializing, etc. makes me want to go out and
> try it again. I'm strong enough now to know that even one drink will
> put me right back to that hellish nightmare in a matter of days. But
> there are younger and weaker alcoholics that might also read your post.
> Please consider them.

Marv.. good point, but it was a pretty honest post, the truth is the
truth, and one of the things that drove me out of AA was all the horror
stories about drinking.. The cold hard fact of the matter is the
attraction has to be dealt with and addressed, we can all relate to the
"hell" but for a lot of us it did not happen every time.. there were a
few times when we would dodge the bullet, and i had to learn at first
to say goodbye to booze as if saying goodbye to a good and close
friend. Its easy to deal with the horror show, but the fonder memories
can be more dangerous.

I can say though that you addressed these concerns with a level of
tact and good will that surprises me... if i had met more folks with
the type of sobriety you display, i would have gotten more from my time
in AA, and stuck around a little longer. If i ever even mention
moderation, i will frame it as a last resort, and thanx for making me
aware of the responsibility that goes along with something like that
ABM

Angryblaque wrote:

I can say though that you addressed these concerns with a level of
tact and good will that surprises me... if i had met more folks with
the type of sobriety you display, i would have gotten more from my time

in AA, and stuck around a little longer. If i ever even mention
moderation, i will frame it as a last resort, and thanx for making me
aware of the responsibility that goes along with something like that
ABM

************************************************** ************************************************** ***********************************
Much appreciated and I wish you nothing but happiness in life.

One other quick note to ABM:

You said:

I ended up choosing
moderation, was not prepared to give up wine with dinner, beer with my
dad on hockey night, even the odd solitary shot of scotch in a bar
while i people watch. I don't care anymore if the hordes scream "well..

if you can now drink, you were never an alcoholic"
************************************************** ************************************************** *****************************

>From an alcoholic who has no doubt that I am one...Do you even
understand how many times I have prayed for the ability to drink in
"moderation". You are defining the difference between me and you. I can
never CHOOSE to have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer or the
"solitary shot". That one really makes me laugh. I have NEVER had a
solitary alcoholic beverage in my LIFE! If you have this kind of
control, you are not an alcoholic.

One warning, however. The 25 years of "succesful drinking" I mentioned
earlier detiorated over time. For years and years, I looked down my
nose at those who could not have a "few drinks", eat and enjoy the
evening, because I could. The tables can turn quickly. Alcohol is
cunning, baffling and powerful and it's also very patient. Addiction is
the only illness that will convince you that you don't have it.

<angryblaqueman2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142728574.868125.50110@e56g2000cwe.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Starvin'Marv wrote:
> > I have to agree with Stuart. Anyone who doesn't recognize the "hell" we
> > speak of hasn't been there...yet. Maybe you're what I refer to as an
> > earth person, someone who can continue to drink all his life without it
> > ever overcoming you. Congratulations, if you are, I envy you.
> SNIP
> > No one can stop you from posting, but just let me remind you that even
> > with the hell I've been through, reading your posts about the good
> > feelings, the highs, the socializing, etc. makes me want to go out and
> > try it again. I'm strong enough now to know that even one drink will
> > put me right back to that hellish nightmare in a matter of days. But
> > there are younger and weaker alcoholics that might also read your post.
> > Please consider them.
>
> Marv.. good point, but it was a pretty honest post, the truth is the
> truth, and one of the things that drove me out of AA was all the horror
> stories about drinking.. The cold hard fact of the matter is the
> attraction has to be dealt with and addressed, we can all relate to the
> "hell" but for a lot of us it did not happen every time.. there were a
> few times when we would dodge the bullet, and i had to learn at first
> to say goodbye to booze as if saying goodbye to a good and close
> friend. Its easy to deal with the horror show, but the fonder memories
> can be more dangerous.
>
> I can say though that you addressed these concerns with a level of
> tact and good will that surprises me... if i had met more folks with
> the type of sobriety you display, i would have gotten more from my time
> in AA, and stuck around a little longer. If i ever even mention
> moderation, i will frame it as a last resort, and thanx for making me
> aware of the responsibility that goes along with something like that
> ABM

If you are like most, AA will change as you change. The people we gravitate
to, and who gravitate towards us change as time goes by.
If you really step back and look at those "horror stories about drinking"
fact of the matter is you must have been listening because you remember
them. No one forces anyone to sit and listen to anything at an AA meeting.
Don't like 'em, leave the meeting or try and change the topic if you get a
chance.

Thanks for the replies. For some, a rigid black & white view of alcohol
might be the only approach. Others, like me, are very turned off by it.
That's what makes this challenging.

What are the Joe and Charlie tapes?

Thanks and Peace Out,
Chet

Chet <fake@email.com> wrote in message
news:ZYWdnTLb5P-ZeoPZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Thanks for the replies. For some, a rigid black & white view of alcohol
> might be the only approach. Others, like me, are very turned off by it.
> That's what makes this challenging.
>
> What are the Joe and Charlie tapes?
>
> Thanks and Peace Out,
> Chet

Seek them out, they are free on some websites. Listen intently for the full
eight hours. You will learn about the STEPS of AA, not the stories or the
people.