Given proper advice, George Best
could have drunk safely again


ONE of the tragedies of George Best's life was that, if he had been
made aware of the full range of alternative options, he could have
drunk alcohol in a safe, normal and responsible manner.

That is the claim of Scottish couple and former alcoholics Lilian and
Murdoch MacDonald, whose book on their recovery from alcoholism
"Phoenix in a Bottle" was published earlier this year.

Lilian and Murdoch say that, in common with many alcoholics, George
Best would have appeared to have been given the stark choice between on
the one hand carrying on drinking alcoholically, and on the other
embracing lifelong abstinence from alcohol.

But according to Lilian and Murdoch, there is a third choice.

They maintain that alcoholism is not an incurable disease as Alcoholics
Anonymous would have us believe.

In fact it is a self-harming behaviour problem rooted in childhood. And
if alcoholics are willing to identify and address their issues from the
past, there is no reason why most of them should not be able to take a
drink safely and responsibly again, if and when they so wish.

In 1994 as a result of their alcoholism, Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald
were down and out, sleeping rough in the streets and parks of
Cambridge, the English university town where, a quarter of a century
before, Murdoch had studied for an honours degree.

Refusing to accept what they consider to be the outmoded myths and
dogma of Alcoholics Anonymous, Lilian and Murdoch set about searching
for the underlying causes of their self-harming behaviour problem,
which they discovered lay in childhood.

Although Lilian and Murdoch's upbringing caused their problems, they
themselves take full responsibility for their drinking, most
importantly because taking responsibility for one's own actions is the
starting point on the road to recovery.

As a result of their endeavours, the couple are today back home in
Ayrshire, Scotland, leading normal lives again, with their problems of
alcoholism and Lilian's associated eating disorder well and truly
behind them.

Controversially, they are also now able to drink alcohol responsibly
again, if and when they so wish.

Their book "Phoenix in a Bottle" is the story of their journey. It is
published by Melrose Books ISBN 1905226144 price £16.99.

Lilian and Murdoch's website:

www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

Web links:

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya...newpage32.html

http://www.i-newswire.com/pr51333.html

Roses are red and violets are blue.
Murdoch's a charlatan and Lilian, too!

"Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133552383.312628.150530@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Given proper advice, George Best
could have drunk safely again


ONE of the tragedies of George Best's life was that, if he had been
made aware of the full range of alternative options, he could have
drunk alcohol in a safe, normal and responsible manner.

That is the claim of Scottish couple and former alcoholics Lilian and
Murdoch MacDonald, whose book on their recovery from alcoholism
"Phoenix in a Bottle" was published earlier this year.

Lilian and Murdoch say that, in common with many alcoholics, George
Best would have appeared to have been given the stark choice between on
the one hand carrying on drinking alcoholically, and on the other
embracing lifelong abstinence from alcohol.

But according to Lilian and Murdoch, there is a third choice.

They maintain that alcoholism is not an incurable disease as Alcoholics
Anonymous would have us believe.

In fact it is a self-harming behaviour problem rooted in childhood. And
if alcoholics are willing to identify and address their issues from the
past, there is no reason why most of them should not be able to take a
drink safely and responsibly again, if and when they so wish.

In 1994 as a result of their alcoholism, Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald
were down and out, sleeping rough in the streets and parks of
Cambridge, the English university town where, a quarter of a century
before, Murdoch had studied for an honours degree.

Refusing to accept what they consider to be the outmoded myths and
dogma of Alcoholics Anonymous, Lilian and Murdoch set about searching
for the underlying causes of their self-harming behaviour problem,
which they discovered lay in childhood.

Although Lilian and Murdoch's upbringing caused their problems, they
themselves take full responsibility for their drinking, most
importantly because taking responsibility for one's own actions is the
starting point on the road to recovery.

As a result of their endeavours, the couple are today back home in
Ayrshire, Scotland, leading normal lives again, with their problems of
alcoholism and Lilian's associated eating disorder well and truly
behind them.

Controversially, they are also now able to drink alcohol responsibly
again, if and when they so wish.

Their book "Phoenix in a Bottle" is the story of their journey. It is
published by Melrose Books ISBN 1905226144 price £16.99.

Lilian and Murdoch's website:

www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

Web links:

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya...newpage32.html

http://www.i-newswire.com/pr51333.html

Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to claim
that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a liver
transplant.
What a couple of despicable gyps.

"Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133552383.312628.150530@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
Given proper advice, George Best
could have drunk safely again


ONE of the tragedies of George Best's life was that, if he had been
made aware of the full range of alternative options, he could have
drunk alcohol in a safe, normal and responsible manner.

That is the claim of Scottish couple and former alcoholics Lilian and
Murdoch MacDonald, whose book on their recovery from alcoholism
"Phoenix in a Bottle" was published earlier this year.

Lilian and Murdoch say that, in common with many alcoholics, George
Best would have appeared to have been given the stark choice between on
the one hand carrying on drinking alcoholically, and on the other
embracing lifelong abstinence from alcohol.

But according to Lilian and Murdoch, there is a third choice.

They maintain that alcoholism is not an incurable disease as Alcoholics
Anonymous would have us believe.

In fact it is a self-harming behaviour problem rooted in childhood. And
if alcoholics are willing to identify and address their issues from the
past, there is no reason why most of them should not be able to take a
drink safely and responsibly again, if and when they so wish.

In 1994 as a result of their alcoholism, Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald
were down and out, sleeping rough in the streets and parks of
Cambridge, the English university town where, a quarter of a century
before, Murdoch had studied for an honours degree.

Refusing to accept what they consider to be the outmoded myths and
dogma of Alcoholics Anonymous, Lilian and Murdoch set about searching
for the underlying causes of their self-harming behaviour problem,
which they discovered lay in childhood.

Although Lilian and Murdoch's upbringing caused their problems, they
themselves take full responsibility for their drinking, most
importantly because taking responsibility for one's own actions is the
starting point on the road to recovery.

As a result of their endeavours, the couple are today back home in
Ayrshire, Scotland, leading normal lives again, with their problems of
alcoholism and Lilian's associated eating disorder well and truly
behind them.

Controversially, they are also now able to drink alcohol responsibly
again, if and when they so wish.

Their book "Phoenix in a Bottle" is the story of their journey. It is
published by Melrose Books ISBN 1905226144 price £16.99.

Lilian and Murdoch's website:

www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

Web links:

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya...newpage32.html

http://www.i-newswire.com/pr51333.html

"Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133552383.312628.150530@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
>Given proper advice, George Best
>could have drunk safely again


Given the theory of a sucker being born every minute, and the
probability of countless erroneously diagnosed alcoholics, surely
your spamming should have netted enough suckers to parade at least a
dozen or so living paragons of your theory exemplified in practice.

Jeez, Murdoch, is it your sex life, or your book, that's so bad
you're fucking with a corpse to get a testimonial?

Bob

Dan McGown wrote:

>Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
>moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
>-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to claim
>that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a liver
>transplant.
>What a couple of despicable gyps.
>
>
Dan,

Didn't he have 12-Step treatment? And how many times? Do you have any
evidence that he had even heard about alternatives to the Step groups?
Where did the 12-Steps and disease nonsense get him?

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

>"Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1133552383.312628.150530@f14g2000cwb.googleg roups.com...
>Given proper advice, George Best
>could have drunk safely again
>
>
>ONE of the tragedies of George Best's life was that, if he had been
>made aware of the full range of alternative options, he could have
>drunk alcohol in a safe, normal and responsible manner.
>
>That is the claim of Scottish couple and former alcoholics Lilian and
>Murdoch MacDonald, whose book on their recovery from alcoholism
>"Phoenix in a Bottle" was published earlier this year.
>
>Lilian and Murdoch say that, in common with many alcoholics, George
>Best would have appeared to have been given the stark choice between on
>the one hand carrying on drinking alcoholically, and on the other
>embracing lifelong abstinence from alcohol.
>
>But according to Lilian and Murdoch, there is a third choice.
>
>They maintain that alcoholism is not an incurable disease as Alcoholics
>Anonymous would have us believe.
>
>In fact it is a self-harming behaviour problem rooted in childhood. And
>if alcoholics are willing to identify and address their issues from the
>past, there is no reason why most of them should not be able to take a
>drink safely and responsibly again, if and when they so wish.
>
>In 1994 as a result of their alcoholism, Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald
>were down and out, sleeping rough in the streets and parks of
>Cambridge, the English university town where, a quarter of a century
>before, Murdoch had studied for an honours degree.
>
>Refusing to accept what they consider to be the outmoded myths and
>dogma of Alcoholics Anonymous, Lilian and Murdoch set about searching
>for the underlying causes of their self-harming behaviour problem,
>which they discovered lay in childhood.
>
>Although Lilian and Murdoch's upbringing caused their problems, they
>themselves take full responsibility for their drinking, most
>importantly because taking responsibility for one's own actions is the
>starting point on the road to recovery.
>
>As a result of their endeavours, the couple are today back home in
>Ayrshire, Scotland, leading normal lives again, with their problems of
>alcoholism and Lilian's associated eating disorder well and truly
>behind them.
>
>Controversially, they are also now able to drink alcohol responsibly
>again, if and when they so wish.
>
>Their book "Phoenix in a Bottle" is the story of their journey. It is
>published by Melrose Books ISBN 1905226144 price £16.99.
>
>Lilian and Murdoch's website:
>
>www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>
>Web links:
>
>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya...newpage32.html
>
>http://www.i-newswire.com/pr51333.html
>
>
>
>

Ken <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news9Kdnb_u7-yRKA7eRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> Dan McGown wrote:
>
> >Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
> >moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
> >-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to claim
> >that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a
liver
> >transplant.
> >What a couple of despicable gyps.
> >
> >
> Dan,
>
> Didn't he have 12-Step treatment? And how many times? Do you have any
> evidence that he had even heard about alternatives to the Step groups?
> Where did the 12-Steps and disease nonsense get him?
>
> Ken Ragge

Fuck Off Ken. You think the guy was some blue-collar provincial recluse like
yourself? George Best was no doubt aware of treatment options I'm sure even
you haven't even heard of. And what do you personally know what he did for
treatment?

Ken <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news9Kdnb_u7-yRKA7eRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> Dan McGown wrote:
>
> >Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
> >moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
> >-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to claim
> >that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a
liver
> >transplant.
> >What a couple of despicable gyps.
> >
> >
> Dan,
>
> Didn't he have 12-Step treatment? And how many times? Do you have any
> evidence that he had even heard about alternatives to the Step groups?
> Where did the 12-Steps and disease nonsense get him?
>
> Ken Ragge

PS: I have just cut and pasted your ignorant and insulting comments on the
George Best memorial website for the perusal and disgust of all British
soccer fans to read. I believe Ken Ragge owes Manchester United fans an
apology. And NO I won't give them your website address, just your email. I
wouldn't do you the favour...

You ignorant bastard.

stuart wrote:

>Ken <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>news9Kdnb_u7-yRKA7eRVn-rA@comcast.com...
>
>
>>Dan McGown wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
>>>moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
>>>-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to claim
>>>that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a
>>>
>>>
>liver
>
>
>>>transplant.
>>>What a couple of despicable gyps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Dan,
>>
>>Didn't he have 12-Step treatment? And how many times? Do you have any
>>evidence that he had even heard about alternatives to the Step groups?
>>Where did the 12-Steps and disease nonsense get him?
>>
>>Ken Ragge
>>
>>
>
>Fuck Off Ken. You think the guy was some blue-collar provincial recluse like
>yourself? George Best was no doubt aware of treatment options I'm sure even
>you haven't even heard of. And what do you personally know what he did for
>treatment?
>
>
Stuart,

Better be careful. Remember H.A.L.T. Don't get too Hungry, Angry,
Lonely, or Tired. Having normal human emotion will make you drink,
don't you know from your "spiritual program"?

I have a real good guess. It is my understanding that he went for
treatment when he played on the San Jose, California team. Ninety-five
percent of treatment in the U.S. is 12-Step and the percentage in
California is probably higher.

Are you suggesting that his treatment must have been Church of
Scientology? Ha! Ha!

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

stuart wrote:

>Ken <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>news9Kdnb_u7-yRKA7eRVn-rA@comcast.com...
>
>
>>Dan McGown wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
>>>moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
>>>-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to claim
>>>that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a
>>>
>>>
>liver
>
>
>>>transplant.
>>>What a couple of despicable gyps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Dan,
>>
>>Didn't he have 12-Step treatment? And how many times? Do you have any
>>evidence that he had even heard about alternatives to the Step groups?
>>Where did the 12-Steps and disease nonsense get him?
>>
>>Ken Ragge
>>
>>
>
>PS: I have just cut and pasted your ignorant and insulting comments on the
>George Best memorial website for the perusal and disgust of all British
>soccer fans to read. I believe Ken Ragge owes Manchester United fans an
>apology. And NO I won't give them your website address, just your email. I
>wouldn't do you the favour...
>
>You ignorant bastard.
>
>
Stuart,

"Ignorant and insulting"? How is that? Do you think most British
people even know anything about the 12-Step groups or would be
supportive of a dirivative of American Fundamentalist Christianity as
treatment if they knew anything about them?

Why do I owe the fans an apology for believing it very likely the
12-Steps killed him as it has so many others?

Don't you think you owe them an apology for trying to use his memorial
website to proseletyse your 12-Steps Powerless nonsense?

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

Ken, really, you are such an absolute dick.

"Ken" <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:UZWdnc4QZ5g6eA7eRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> stuart wrote:
>
>>Ken <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
>>news9Kdnb_u7-yRKA7eRVn-rA@comcast.com...
>>
>>>Dan McGown wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oh, and by the way, *no* *one* could have taught George Best to drink
>>>>moderately. He wasn't even interested in moderation.
>>>>-- and only a dyed in the wool snake oil salesman would even try to
>>>>claim
>>>>that they could teach moderate drinking to someone who had to have a
>>>>
>>liver
>>
>>>>transplant.
>>>>What a couple of despicable gyps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Dan,
>>>
>>>Didn't he have 12-Step treatment? And how many times? Do you have any
>>>evidence that he had even heard about alternatives to the Step groups?
>>>Where did the 12-Steps and disease nonsense get him?
>>>
>>>Ken Ragge
>>>
>>
>>PS: I have just cut and pasted your ignorant and insulting comments on
>>the
>>George Best memorial website for the perusal and disgust of all British
>>soccer fans to read. I believe Ken Ragge owes Manchester United fans an
>>apology. And NO I won't give them your website address, just your email. I
>>wouldn't do you the favour...
>>
>>You ignorant bastard.
>>
> Stuart,
>
> "Ignorant and insulting"? How is that? Do you think most British people
> even know anything about the 12-Step groups or would be supportive of a
> dirivative of American Fundamentalist Christianity as treatment if they
> knew anything about them?
>
> Why do I owe the fans an apology for believing it very likely the 12-Steps
> killed him as it has so many others?
> Don't you think you owe them an apology for trying to use his memorial
> website to proseletyse your 12-Steps Powerless nonsense?
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com