http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:

:|http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
I for one agree that AA is outdated, and cultic, but then again I also feel that
this is not the proper forum for SPAMMING!!! If you wish to sell books try the
talk show circuit.


Have a nice day;

Bryce L. Martin

On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:

>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>
WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
ok.

Best
Daveb

Dave, please notice that Murdoch said that we could *drink* again -- he
didn't say anything about being able to *stop* drinking again! <L>
Dan

<DaveB> wrote in message news:438d0a9b.17578587@news.dslextreme.com...
> On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>>
> WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
> ok.
>
> Best
> Daveb

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:22:20 -0500, "Dan McGown"
<dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:

>Dave, please notice that Murdoch said that we could *drink* again -- he
>didn't say anything about being able to *stop* drinking again! <L>
> Dan
>
><DaveB> wrote in message news:438d0a9b.17578587@news.dslextreme.com...
>> On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>>>
>> WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
>> ok.
>>
>> Best
>> Daveb
>
>

Chit........lol (funny)

Regards

Daveb

<DaveB> wrote in message news:438dd373.1115321@news.dslextreme.com...
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:22:20 -0500, "Dan McGown"
> <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>Dave, please notice that Murdoch said that we could *drink* again -- he
>>didn't say anything about being able to *stop* drinking again! <L>
>> Dan
>>
>><DaveB> wrote in message news:438d0a9b.17578587@news.dslextreme.com...
>>> On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>>>>
>>> WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
>>> ok.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Daveb
>>
>>
>
> Chit........lol (funny)
>
> Regards
>
> Daveb

And just how much money do this idiots hope to make destroying people and
their families lives?

"Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133301461.372545.12870@g43g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>

Yeck hack cough patooi--sorry found that hard to swallow.
The dream of every alcoholic--many chase it to death.
Peace
John

John Royer wrote:

><DaveB> wrote in message news:438dd373.1115321@news.dslextreme.com...
>
>
>>On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:22:20 -0500, "Dan McGown"
>><dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dave, please notice that Murdoch said that we could *drink* again -- he
>>>didn't say anything about being able to *stop* drinking again! <L>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>><DaveB> wrote in message news:438d0a9b.17578587@news.dslextreme.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
>>>>ok.
>>>>
>>>>Best
>>>>Daveb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Chit........lol (funny)
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Daveb
>>
>>
>
>And just how much money do this idiots hope to make destroying people and
>their families lives?
>
>
John,

I've heard it a million times so it must be true, yes?

While I most certainly don't believe everyone can learn to drink
responsibly again, nor do I think it worth the time and effort many
others who could would need to put into it, research shows quite the
opposite of what you say above. In AA board member and Al Anon George
Vaillant's own research, the only thing that making people believe that
abstinence was necessary for everyone did was to lower the number of
successful recoveries from excessive drinking. Of those who did what
Vaillant told them to do and went to AA, only 5 percent maintained
abstinence. The other group not only had the same 5 percent who
maintained abstinence but a larger percentage who managed moderation.

Telling people to go out and "try moderating" as the Big Book suggests
without suggesting that they deal with the problems that are causing
them to behave self-destructively is what is killing people.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:19:15 -0500, "John Royer"
<john.royer2@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>
><DaveB> wrote in message news:438dd373.1115321@news.dslextreme.com...
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:22:20 -0500, "Dan McGown"
>> <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Dave, please notice that Murdoch said that we could *drink* again -- he
>>>didn't say anything about being able to *stop* drinking again! <L>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>><DaveB> wrote in message news:438d0a9b.17578587@news.dslextreme.com...
>>>> On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>>>>>
>>>> WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
>>>> ok.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Daveb
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Chit........lol (funny)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Daveb
>
>And just how much money do this idiots hope to make destroying people and
>their families lives?
>
>
You really dont think anyone listen's to these fool's do ya?

Regards
Daveb

"Ken" <nospam@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:zfOdneiYrPTjHxPenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> John Royer wrote:
>
>><DaveB> wrote in message news:438dd373.1115321@news.dslextreme.com...
>>
>>>On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:22:20 -0500, "Dan McGown"
>>><dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dave, please notice that Murdoch said that we could *drink* again -- he
>>>>didn't say anything about being able to *stop* drinking again! <L>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>><DaveB> wrote in message news:438d0a9b.17578587@news.dslextreme.com...
>>>>
>>>>>On 29 Nov 2005 13:57:41 -0800, "Murdoch" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>WhooooooooHoooooooooooo, damn I been waiting for someone to say it's
>>>>>ok.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best
>>>>>Daveb
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>Chit........lol (funny)
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>Daveb
>>>
>>
>>And just how much money do this idiots hope to make destroying people and
>>their families lives?
> John,
>
> I've heard it a million times so it must be true, yes?
> While I most certainly don't believe everyone can learn to drink
> responsibly again, nor do I think it worth the time and effort many others
> who could would need to put into it, research shows quite the opposite of
> what you say above. In AA board member and Al Anon George Vaillant's own
> research, the only thing that making people believe that abstinence was
> necessary for everyone did was to lower the number of successful
> recoveries from excessive drinking. Of those who did what Vaillant told
> them to do and went to AA, only 5 percent maintained abstinence. The
> other group not only had the same 5 percent who maintained abstinence but
> a larger percentage who managed moderation.
>
> Telling people to go out and "try moderating" as the Big Book suggests
> without suggesting that they deal with the problems that are causing them
> to behave self-destructively is what is killing people.
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com

Ken,
since I work in the field I'd be very interested in reviewing this research
you speak of. My research suggests that recovery rates regardless of methods
used, favor abstinence as being the most efficous and harm reduction as only
delaying the inevitable. Of course the damage done in the meantime
notwithstanding, does line pockets of those who advocate it.
No one suggests that not dealing with the underlying problems is helpful.
The 12 steps are supposed to do that. In fact I just reviewed a piece of
research on Anxiety Disorders and the method used to record the triggers was
modeled on the Serenity Prayer.
Please be so kind as to cite the research so that I can become more aware of
this method.

John