"M$Man" <my_email@none_of_your_goddamn_business.org> wrote in
message news:u_0re.27286$J12.2948@newssvr14.news.prodigy.c om



>
> So my question is, are there people out there that have managed to
> stay clean and sober with out the program? Is my desire to stay
> sober and live to see 40 enough to sustain me? I think it is, I
> mean, I had the wherewithal to admit myself, and dry out, and have
> maintained for 68 days since I got out!
> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
>

Anyone who has recovered after app 90 days, yet opts for Usenet
rather than simply observing the vast majority living in the real
world without support of "the program," would probly be better
sustained by supporting an addiction "therapist" daily.

Bob

> rather than simply observing the vast majority living in the real world
> without support of "the program,"

Prey-tell "Bobert", where would you suggest I find a trove or rather "vast
majority" or recovered addicts to view and then mimic, other than "the
program"? How can you tell a recovered addict, from your everyday, run of
the mill, man about town? And why not Usenet? I enjoy the anonymous nature,
as well as the fact that I don't have to listen to anal snatches like you
"share" for 20 minutes, while the repugnant odors of tobacco and stale
coffee permeates every pore of my being. You seem a wee bit uptight .....you
should get on some mood stabilizers, (Lithium & Depakote both worked well
for my X). In closing, I would normally thank you for the help, but you
weren't any help what-so-ever.

"M$Man" <my_email@none_of_your_goddamn_business.org> wrote in message
news:u_0re.27286$J12.2948@newssvr14.news.prodigy.c om...
> I'm a 30 yr old man clean for 98 days. My drug of choice was coke, with a
> screw driver chaser to clean my throat after every line, I started using
> in college 12 years ago and was a daily user for 6 years. I spent 30 days
> in a controlled detox, while there I was forced to attend 12 step
> meetings. I see an addiction therapist weekly, who tells me in every
> session that I am only buying time, and can never maintain my sobriety
> with out a program. I have made several attempts to find a meeting that's
> right for me, but haven't. I am also an agnostic, and have deep issues
> with the theocratic structure of AA. I am a high-bottom addict I'm told,
> in that I have never lost every thing and been forced to live in the
> gutter and sale my ass for a bottle of Absolute. That's part of my issue
> with the program as well, its designed for people that have hit bottom and
> can go no lower, a jail house conversion if you will. While I did reached
> that point, that is, I became so disgusted with the unmanageable downward
> spiral my life was taking, I still managed to keep it together. Never lost
> my job, house, family, friends, and they have all supported me through my
> recovery.
>
> So my question is, are there people out there that have managed to stay
> clean and sober with out the program? Is my desire to stay sober and live
> to see 40 enough to sustain me? I think it is, I mean, I had the
> wherewithal to admit myself, and dry out, and have maintained for 68 days
> since I got out!
>
> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks - Chris
>

Here are some links that you might check out for alternatives:

http://unhooked.com Lifering Secular Sobriey

http://smartrecovery.org Smart Recovery

Both of these are abstinece groups and secular in nature. I participate
heavily in the former and take what I can use in the latter. I also take
what I can use from AA. I don't think moderation is really possible for most
that have been as far as treatment for their addiction. From what I
personally know of the experience of others, moderation is more trouble than
it is worth on one extreme to extremely dangerous on the other. Yes, it is
also possible to recover on your own. I think that statistically most people
do. Since you are playing with your life, I would investigate all
possibilities before I decided on anything.

Gregg


>

Jezus H. Dipshit........You should defiantly reference the post for Bobert
below, pay special attention to the segment regarding the outstanding
benefits of psychotropic drugs a person can avail themselves of these days.

My name is Chris, (I would give my last name, but I don't have much faith in
your mental stability) I live in Northern Nevada (Tahoe) and my question and
post were very much real, and quite frankly it angers me to have some
jackass make light of the tremendous effort I have placed on my sobriety to
this point. You obviously have no concept for the overwhelming addiction
caused by cocaine and alcohol used together, nor the difficulty of
abstinence. I understand why the program must be easy for weak minded people
like you, I've been told several times how easy it is for stupid people to
grab the program with both hands and hump it raw, but for those of use who
enjoy an IQ larger than our waist size and chose to question what we are
told, its quite a different beast. So unless you and all the other 12 Step
Groupies out there have something positive to contribute, that may actually
help me in my quest to maintain my sobriety, keep you weak minds and
unintelligible comments to yourselves.

Further, I have no idea who Ken is, but I am enjoying the reading he
suggested. And what's up with the whole " infomercial" comment? I've been
reading on the sight he suggested and there isn't a damn thing for sale
there. In fact.....the books are there for me to read FOR FREE!!.!! How
Awesome is that? As I recall I dropped about $65 for my AA Big Book, Little
Red One, 12 Step and Traditions, and on and on.......I never found a single
place on line to reference them for free.

And on that happy note I'm going to put 98 in the rearview and look forward
to 99.

"stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Qf8re.47266$wr.19998@clgrps12...
> How to profit Kem. Create your own question and then provide an answer by
> "someone else"
> Your're as sleazy as Orange.
> Lets do an infomercial.

"Sheenah" wrote:
> I was able to not drink for almost 8 years without
> making use of arecovery programme.

So what was your silver bullet? Where did you get your support structure
from? Just family and friends? Was it just a will power thing? How did you
cope when something hit a trigger?

Thanks for the insight

Peace - Sister

"M$Man" <my_email@none_of_your_goddamn_business.org> wrote in
message news:J1cre.406$Pa5.105@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com
>> rather than simply observing the vast majority living in the real
>> world without support of "the program,"
>
> Prey-tell "Bobert", where would you suggest I find a trove or
> rather "vast majority" or recovered addicts to view and then
> mimic, other than "the program"?


You may really need a counsellor to teach you how to take the cotton
wool out of your ears, stick it in your mouth, and simply listen to
everyday people.

The great majority I've discussed the topic with either
stopped/moderated themselves, or, more usually, have at least one
acquaintance, friend, or relative, who simply stopped drinking and/or
drugging to excess. Can't see people bothering to even try disclosing
that reality to you though, while you're so busy blabbing on about
yourself.

Interesting how you boast of your own recovery, yet want to mimic
others! Perhaps you are one of those people who, be the room smoke
filled, or not, are lost without a podium, and a power greater than
yourselves.

Bob

"M$Man" <my_email@none_of_your_goddamn_business.org> wrote in message
news:u_0re.27286$J12.2948@newssvr14.news.prodigy.c om...
> I'm a 30 yr old man clean for 98 days. My drug of choice was coke, with a
> screw driver chaser to clean my throat after every line, I started using
> in college 12 years ago and was a daily user for 6 years. I spent 30 days
> in a controlled detox, while there I was forced to attend 12 step
> meetings. I see an addiction therapist weekly, who tells me in every
> session that I am only buying time, and can never maintain my sobriety
> with out a program. I have made several attempts to find a meeting that's
> right for me, but haven't. I am also an agnostic, and have deep issues
> with the theocratic structure of AA. I am a high-bottom addict I'm told,
> in that I have never lost every thing and been forced to live in the
> gutter and sale my ass for a bottle of Absolute. That's part of my issue
> with the program as well, its designed for people that have hit bottom and
> can go no lower, a jail house conversion if you will. While I did reached
> that point, that is, I became so disgusted with the unmanageable downward
> spiral my life was taking, I still managed to keep it together. Never lost
> my job, house, family, friends, and they have all supported me through my
> recovery.
>
> So my question is, are there people out there that have managed to stay
> clean and sober with out the program? Is my desire to stay sober and live
> to see 40 enough to sustain me? I think it is, I mean, I had the
> wherewithal to admit myself, and dry out, and have maintained for 68 days
> since I got out!
>
> Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks - Chris



Chris,

I'm interested in how you have done it thus far. Is it really "just
say 'no'?" Are you doing it entirely on your own or are you working with
anyone like a fellow addict or a therapist? Do you think that you were
simply physically addicted to the coke or did you have any other personality
issues that triggered using?

I never particularly liked pot because it made me tired and interfered
with my drinking, but coke keeps you up so that you can drink more. I was
never a coke addict, though, just a very serious drinker. Were you more
like a coke addict who drank, an alcoholic who used coke or someone who tied
them together?

I generally agree that whatever help one may find, the program or
therapy or whatever; that everyone really has to do their recovery for
themselves. For me, the program has been useful and I still use it. It's
not a magic bullet, however, and doesn't seem to work for everyone. It is,
however, one of the few visible groups dedicated to helping addicts.

Have you found any others? If so, I'd like to know about them.

It seems to me that much of addiction is idiosyncratic. Some people
seem to be just plainly physically addicted. Other seem to have learned to
be dependant on substances to deal with the pain or internal conflict caused
by other personal problems. It only makes sense to me that, just as the
causes are individual, so the solutions must probably be individually
tailored. I was more the guy who was already inclined to drink and had
learned to use it as a drug to deal with pain, who then went over the line
to drinking constantly because of unmanageable (or at least unmanaged)
internal conflicts.

I guess that because I think that the problem is individualized is why
I use as much of the program is useful to me and substitute my own thinking
for the parts that don't work for me. That's one of the reasons that I have
avoided meetings that are, as you say, more "theocratic" than I care for and
tried to find the ones that are more in the nature of mutual support and
assistance. One of the things that I do like about the program is the
commitment to helping people who are still out there poisoning themselves.

Please stick around and help discuss the nature of addiction and the
ways of dealing with it.

Dan

"dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:tKudnaQage5X5DDfRVn-ug@adelphia.com
> Chris,
>
> I'm interested in how you have done it thus far. Is it really
> "just say 'no'?" Are you doing it entirely on your own or are you
> working with anyone like a fellow addict or a therapist?

Dan, your "interest" might have even appeared genuine, had you first
bothered to read what "Chris" had already written, right above your
questions.

Bob

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ad7f11_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> "dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:tKudnaQage5X5DDfRVn-ug@adelphia.com
>> Chris,
>>
>> I'm interested in how you have done it thus far. Is it really
>> "just say 'no'?" Are you doing it entirely on your own or are you
>> working with anyone like a fellow addict or a therapist?
>
> Dan, your "interest" might have even appeared genuine, had you first
> bothered to read what "Chris" had already written, right above your
> questions.
>
> Bob
Bob,
My interest is genuine. I am asking for more information, as I thought
that there might be more there. There is no reason that I know of that
every thread should be turned into some kind of sparring contest. Not every
post is a challenge to battle.
Dan

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:42ad7f11_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> "dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:tKudnaQage5X5DDfRVn-ug@adelphia.com
>> Chris,
>>
>> I'm interested in how you have done it thus far. Is it really
>> "just say 'no'?" Are you doing it entirely on your own or are you
>> working with anyone like a fellow addict or a therapist?
>
> Dan, your "interest" might have even appeared genuine, had you first
> bothered to read what "Chris" had already written, right above your
> questions.
>
> Bob

For example, he says that he is seeing an addiction therapist once a week --
is that really something that he feels continues to help him? Would he be
clean without it? He went to some enforced meetings. Has he tried to find
any that were less religious? Is he working with any other addicst or just
the therapist? What the hell kind of "therapist" anyway? A psychologist or
psychiatrist or just someone who put up a sign?