stuart wrote:
> <NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:PXjre.837$fV.501@okepread06...
>
>>On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You might put up a better defense if you had a clue what you were
>>>talking about.
>>
>>When have I identified myself as a member of AA?
>
>
> Fact is, you haven't.
> This Ken Ragge would appear to be someone with an agenda. This type of
> newsgroup offers some free advertising. I suspect he's selling tapes, or a
> book or something.
> Unfortunately for him, the biggest reason of all that XA wins recovering
> addicts to about a trillion to one is that XA is not for profit, and is
> free, apart from passing the basket at meetings for voluntary donations
>

Here is a challenge for you Stuart. Tell me where I'm selling
something, anything. Just one more ignorant attack.

AA not for profit? Did you never hear of the multi-billion dollar
treatment industry?

Do you even know who controls the "Big Book"?

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

stuart wrote:

> Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:V_6dnasv2NlITTDfRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
>
>>stuart wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:jpudnfV0av7_JTDfRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>NutSoFast@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually, that is exactly what recovery is about. It is setting
>>>>>>yourself up as wise guru surrounded by fawning followers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In AA, in many ways, the self doesn't exist, "God relieve me of the
>>>>>>bondage of self." When one is a borg, an attack on the collective is
>>>>>>seen as an attack by all the assimilated entities.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone who quotes Star Trek scenarios is worth emulating...
>>>>>So lead on Ken. I think I'm gonna follow you around
>>>>>for awhile! <b (vapid) n>
>>>>>
>>>>NutSoFast,
>>>>
>>>>I'm really delighted to see a grouper respond so cogently when
>>>>confronted with criticism of the group.
>>>>
>>>>Not only do you focus your attention on an analogy, I'll bet you can
>>>>find spelling and gramatical errors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>That's the strange part, Ken. Of all of the intial responders to the
>>>original post who agreed wholeheartedly with you, not one of them had
>
> ANY
>
>>>spelling or grammatical errors. In fact, the literary style was highly
>>>similar, ie very professional, like the author of a book or something.
>>>Ever watch those infomercials on TV, where the "customer" steps in to
>>>endorse the product. Kinda looked like that Ken. You might be able to
>
> pull
>
>>>that stunt in front of many XA members, but not all of us came from skid
>
> row
>
>>>or prison with a sixth grade education.
>>
>>I appreciate your attempt at flattery, but according to the
>>professionals including the last editor of "More Revealed," I have lousy
>>grammer. Even so . . .
>
>
> I wasn't complimenting your grammar, Ken. I was describing it. It was pretty
> much error free, but more importatntly, "both" posters used identical
> sentence structure and spelling.
>
> There are often repeated errors in spelling, Ken, not to mention different
> versions of English ie American, British and Canadian.
> Hate to say so, but you got caught on this one.
>
> I wouldn't push back, to spare yourself any further embarrasment.
>

No, by all means. Push back. I mean really, put up or shut up, isn't
that the expression?

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

>
>>Have you never heard, "No one is too stupid to get the program but many
>>are too smart?" Have you considered the possibility that some of the
>>ones who were too smart to "get it" were the ones responding?
>>
>>In any case, I'm glad it is not my job to keep Steppers honest, to keep
>>them from endlessly repeating inane accustions.
>>
>>Ken Ragge
>>http://www.morerevealed.com
>
>
>

On 13-Jun-2005, "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote:

> Fact is, you haven't.
> This Ken Ragge would appear to be someone with an agenda. This type of
> newsgroup offers some free advertising. I suspect he's selling tapes, or a
> book or something.

In all honesty Stuart (I made sure to double-checked your name)...
I've never had reason to form any opinion about him until today.

It would seem that anyone who puts that much energy into
debunking 'the program' would have an agenda. But perhaps
he is what he claims to be... some sort of anti-crusader. Who
knows?

--
NutSo (aka CW aka C Dub)

"jim" <dingdong46@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Ofkre.1667319$8l.905428@pd7tw1no
> Robert, what do you think of a sober alcoholic who attends
> meetings but still enjoys a puff of good BC bud? You should try
> it, you might mellow out a bit. Contrary to what others may say it
> does not lead back to drinking. I have proved it.

About all you have "proved" here is your absurdity, to which I very
much doubt a toke or two could make any significant difference, at
all.

Bob

Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:I-mdnWCADN3QSTDfRVn-hg@comcast.com...
> stuart wrote:
> > <NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PXjre.837$fV.501@okepread06...
> >
> >>On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>You might put up a better defense if you had a clue what you were
> >>>talking about.
> >>
> >>When have I identified myself as a member of AA?
> >
> >
> > Fact is, you haven't.
> > This Ken Ragge would appear to be someone with an agenda. This type of
> > newsgroup offers some free advertising. I suspect he's selling tapes, or
a
> > book or something.
> > Unfortunately for him, the biggest reason of all that XA wins recovering
> > addicts to about a trillion to one is that XA is not for profit, and is
> > free, apart from passing the basket at meetings for voluntary donations
> >
>
> Here is a challenge for you Stuart. Tell me where I'm selling
> something, anything. Just one more ignorant attack.
# OF COPIES TITLE PRICE
AMOUNT

BOOKS

____ Alcohol: How to Give It Up and Be Glad You Did 10.00
_______
____ Anarchy in Action 9.95
_______
____ Anarchy in Action (with bumped corner) 7.00
_______
____ The Anti-Christ 5.95
_______
(plus The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche) 12.00
_______
____ Bi Lives: Bisexual Women Tell Their Stories 10.00
_______
____ Cuban Anarchism: The History of a Movement 5.00
_______
____ The Devil's Dictionaries, Second Edition 7.95
_______
(plus The Heretic's Handbook of Quotations) 20.00
_______
____ The Drummer's Bible 22.00
_______
____ The Drummer's Bible (defectively bound) 5.00
_______
____ Food Not Bombs (revised edition) 7.00 _____
__
____ Freedom from God 15.00
_______
____ Getting a Bigger Sound 12.00
_______
(plus Musical Instrument Design) 25.00
_______
____ The Heretic's Handbook of Quotations (exp. ed.) 14.95
_______
(plus The Devil's Dictionaries) 20.00
_______
____ The Irrational in Politics 2.00
_______
____ The Jungle: The Uncensored Original Edition 10.00
_______
____ Musical Instrument Design 14.95
_______
____ (plus Getting a Bigger Sound) 25.00
_______
____ Overcoming Your Alcohol, Drug, and Recovery Habits 10.00
_______
____ The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche 7.95
_______
(plus The Anti-Christ) 12.00
_______
_____ The Real AA: Behind the Myth (shopworn) 6.95
_______
____ Resisting 12-Step Coercion 10.00
_______
____ An Understandable Guide to Music Theory 7.95
_______
____ What Is Anarchism? 13.95
_______

PAMPHLETS

____ America's Taliban 2.50
_______
____ Among the Cannibal Christians 3.00
_______
____ Anarchism & American Traditions 1.50
_______
____ Anarchism vs. Primitivism 3.50
_______
____ Anarchism: What It Is & What It Isn't 1.00
_______
____ Anarchist Society & Its Practical Realization 1.50
_______
____ The Art & Science of Billboard Imprvmt. (2nd ed.) 3.00
_______
____ Astrology: Fraud or Superstition? 1.00
_______
____ Bourgeois Influences on Anarchism 3.00
_______
____ The Case Against Religiosity 1.00
_______
____ The Catholic Church and the Sex Problem 2.50
_______
____ Christianity & Slavery 3.50
_______
____ The Crimes of Jehovah 2.50
_______
____ Design Your Own Utopia 2.00
_______
____ Dialogue Between a Priest and a Dying Atheist 2.00
_______
____ Does God Exist? 2.50
_______
____ A Future Worth Living 2.00
_______
____ God Eating: A Study of Christianity & Cannibalism 3.00
_______
____ The Heretic's Guide to the Bible 1.50
_______
____ A History of Satanism 3.00
_______
____ Horrors of the Inquisition 3.50
_______
____ How Christianity Grew Out of Paganism 1.00
_______
____ The Inefficiency of Capitalism 3.00
_______
____ Judeo-Christian Degradation of Woman 3.50
_______
____ Libertarian Communism 2.50
_______
____ Listen Anarchist 2.00
_______
____ May the Farce Be With You 2.00
_______
____ The Meaning of Atheism 1.50
_______
____ Pagan Christs 3.50
_______
____ The Relevance of Anarchism to Modern Society 2.00
_______
____ The Revolutionary Pleasure of Thinking for Yourself 1.50
_______
____ Science, Society & Religion 1.50
_______
____ The State 3.00
_______
____ Thumbscrew & Rack 2.00
_______
____ 20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity 2.00
_______
____ 24 Theses for a New Women's Movement 1.50
_______
What God Has Revealed to Man (1 copy) .35
_______
(4 copies) 1.00
_______
(30 copies) 5.00
_______
(75 copies) 10.00
_______
____ What Is Democracy? 2.50
_______
____ Why I Am Not a Mormon 2.50
_______
____ You Call This Freedom? 2.00
_______
____ You Can't Blow Up a Social Relationship 1.50
_______

BUMPER STICKERS

____ Bumper Sticker Grab Bag 5.00
_______

To order individual stickers, print the page listing them,
circle the ones you want, add up the total, and enter it here:
_______
(Of course, include the page with the circled stickers along
with this form.)
SUBTOTAL
_______

SHIPPING
_______
In the U.S., $3.00 for book rate; $4.50 for priority mail.
Overseas (including Canada & Mexico) $4.50 for surface mail,
$5 + 20% of total for air mail. (Please note that these S/H
fees are per order, not per item.)

(Please also note that all shipments to individuals are
via the U.S. Postal Service. Due to damaged shipments and
their refusal to honor the "insurance" they sell, we
will not ship via UPS.)
TOTAL
$_______


Print Name _______________________ Address
__________________________________

City __________________________ State _____ Zip __________ (Country)
________

Please send this form and a check or money order in U.S. dollars to:

See Sharp Press
P.O. Box 1731
Tucson, AZ 85702-1731
USA

Finally, you can order in-print See Sharp Press books by phone (but not
pamphlets, bumper stickers, or our out-of-print, reduced-price books)
with a credit card at 1-800-888-4741, 9am to 5 pm CST.


[ top ]
>
> AA not for profit? Did you never hear of the multi-billion dollar
> treatment industry?
>
> Do you even know who controls the "Big Book"?
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com

"M$Man" <my_email@none_of_your_goddamn_business.org> wrote in message
news:9jcre.412$Pa5.8@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Sheenah" wrote:
> > I was able to not drink for almost 8 years without
> > making use of arecovery programme.
>
> So what was your silver bullet? Where did you get your support
structure
> from? Just family and friends? Was it just a will power thing? How did
you
> cope when something hit a trigger?

Willpower. All the time I was not drinking, my husband continued
drinking at home. Also, when visitors came or we went out, if it was an
occasion when we normally would be drinking everyone except me did so.
When something hit the trigger it was very much more difficult for me to
not drink. I could get irritable, short-tempered and tearful, be unable
to settle or to concentrate on anything except the thought that I must
not drink and feel frustrated and under stress.

When I started to drink again I had the idea that having been not
drinking for almost eight years I had proved myself well able to control
my drinking "when I wanted to" and this led to me thinking that if I
started to drink again I 'd find it easy to control how much I drank.
The day I decided to drink again, I planned to have only one glass of
wine. Instead, I started with a large coffee mug of wine half of which
I drank in secret before taking my husband his glass of wine. Shortly
after giving him his drink, I went back to where I had left the remains
of my drink, finished it and immediately refilled my mug. That evening
I drank the best part of a full bottle of wine. Ten months of daily
drinking later, I became again ready to decide to quit drinking and did
so.

Today, I have just over 2 years of not drinking under my belt. In these
2 years I have found opinions about what alcoholism is and suggestions
about how it can be managed that have come to make sense to me.

I got exposed to these opinions and suggestions as a result of mixing
with alcoholics, most of whom had at least a year of not drinking under
their belt. From them I came to first have thoughts about what seemed
to work for them and then came to think it could do me no harm to try
doing what those who had the kind of sobriety I hoped to one day have,
had been doing done. So I did. Now, from personal experience, I know
that what seemed to work for those who once gave me cause to think I
ought to do what they've been doing, has to date also worked for me.
Which is good :^)

Sheenah

<NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ZUkre.842$fV.403@okepread06...
>
> On 13-Jun-2005, "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Fact is, you haven't.
> > This Ken Ragge would appear to be someone with an agenda. This type of
> > newsgroup offers some free advertising. I suspect he's selling tapes, or
a
> > book or something.
>
> In all honesty Stuart (I made sure to double-checked your name)...
> I've never had reason to form any opinion about him until today.
>
> It would seem that anyone who puts that much energy into
> debunking 'the program' would have an agenda. But perhaps
> he is what he claims to be... some sort of anti-crusader. Who
> knows?

Ken and his cohorts aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Firstly, to
come to a discussion forum with books for sale is amateurish at best.
Secondly, and most sadly, is that Ken may have some good ideas, and many
legitimate points
Basic principles of salesmanship 101 in the 21st century, the information
age, the "new age" the age of enlightenment are paramount. Are you listening
Ken?
The basic premise is that reasonably intelligent and able people can
entertain conflicting ideas simlutaneously. Ken does not understand this.
Secondly, never never never run down the alternatives, ie "the competition"
if you will. Most readers will immediately begin to think you are afraid or
resentful of them. Bad bad bad. Problem here is that their whole package is
predicated on running down AA.
By doing that, in a forum such as this, he allows his denigration of AA to
extend to AA members, and therefore attacking a huge chunk of his potential
market, or at least potential followers of his ideas. Those who are here who
are not XA members see him attacking those who are. Very bad from a
marketing perspective.
What would work much better for him IMO, it to use the "yes, but"
technique...
example," I got sober in AA and I believe in the steps..."
"yes, but that took you to a certain point in recovery, and although you may
want to stay with AA, have you considered...etc etc

> NutSo (aka CW aka C Dub)

Sheenah <JBcatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:d8ks1k$hvf$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "M$Man" <my_email@none_of_your_goddamn_business.org> wrote in message
> news:9jcre.412$Pa5.8@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Sheenah" wrote:
> > > I was able to not drink for almost 8 years without
> > > making use of arecovery programme.
> >
> > So what was your silver bullet? Where did you get your support
> structure
> > from? Just family and friends? Was it just a will power thing? How did
> you
> > cope when something hit a trigger?
>
> Willpower. All the time I was not drinking, my husband continued
> drinking at home. Also, when visitors came or we went out, if it was an
> occasion when we normally would be drinking everyone except me did so.
> When something hit the trigger it was very much more difficult for me to
> not drink. I could get irritable, short-tempered and tearful, be unable
> to settle or to concentrate on anything except the thought that I must
> not drink and feel frustrated and under stress.
>
> When I started to drink again I had the idea that having been not
> drinking for almost eight years I had proved myself well able to control
> my drinking "when I wanted to" and this led to me thinking that if I
> started to drink again I 'd find it easy to control how much I drank.
> The day I decided to drink again, I planned to have only one glass of
> wine. Instead, I started with a large coffee mug of wine half of which
> I drank in secret before taking my husband his glass of wine. Shortly
> after giving him his drink, I went back to where I had left the remains
> of my drink, finished it and immediately refilled my mug. That evening
> I drank the best part of a full bottle of wine. Ten months of daily
> drinking later, I became again ready to decide to quit drinking and did
> so.
>
> Today, I have just over 2 years of not drinking under my belt. In these
> 2 years I have found opinions about what alcoholism is and suggestions
> about how it can be managed that have come to make sense to me.
>
> I got exposed to these opinions and suggestions as a result of mixing
> with alcoholics, most of whom had at least a year of not drinking under
> their belt. From them I came to first have thoughts about what seemed
> to work for them and then came to think it could do me no harm to try
> doing what those who had the kind of sobriety I hoped to one day have,
> had been doing done. So I did. Now, from personal experience, I know
> that what seemed to work for those who once gave me cause to think I
> ought to do what they've been doing, has to date also worked for me.
> Which is good :^)
>
> Sheenah

Thanks for the ideas Sheenah. It's all good.
>
>

stuart <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3fmre.62688$tt5.30687@edtnps90...
>
> Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:I-mdnWCADN3QSTDfRVn-hg@comcast.com...
> > stuart wrote:
> > > <NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:PXjre.837$fV.501@okepread06...
> > >
> > >>On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>You might put up a better defense if you had a clue what you were
> > >>>talking about.
> > >>
> > >>When have I identified myself as a member of AA?
> > >
> > >
> > > Fact is, you haven't.
> > > This Ken Ragge would appear to be someone with an agenda. This type of
> > > newsgroup offers some free advertising. I suspect he's selling tapes,
or
> a
> > > book or something.
> > > Unfortunately for him, the biggest reason of all that XA wins
recovering
> > > addicts to about a trillion to one is that XA is not for profit, and
is
> > > free, apart from passing the basket at meetings for voluntary
donations
> > >
> >
> > Here is a challenge for you Stuart. Tell me where I'm selling
> > something, anything. Just one more ignorant attack.
> # OF COPIES TITLE PRICE
> AMOUNT
>
> BOOKS
>
> ____ Alcohol: How to Give It Up and Be Glad You Did 10.00
> _______
> ____ Anarchy in Action 9.95
> _______
> ____ Anarchy in Action (with bumped corner) 7.00
> _______
> ____ The Anti-Christ 5.95
> _______
> (plus The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche) 12.00
> _______
> ____ Bi Lives: Bisexual Women Tell Their Stories 10.00
> _______
> ____ Cuban Anarchism: The History of a Movement 5.00
> _______
> ____ The Devil's Dictionaries, Second Edition 7.95
> _______
> (plus The Heretic's Handbook of Quotations) 20.00
> _______
> ____ The Drummer's Bible 22.00
> _______
> ____ The Drummer's Bible (defectively bound) 5.00
> _______
> ____ Food Not Bombs (revised edition) 7.00
_____
> __
> ____ Freedom from God 15.00
> _______
> ____ Getting a Bigger Sound 12.00
> _______
> (plus Musical Instrument Design) 25.00
> _______
> ____ The Heretic's Handbook of Quotations (exp. ed.) 14.95
> _______
> (plus The Devil's Dictionaries) 20.00
> _______
> ____ The Irrational in Politics 2.00
> _______
> ____ The Jungle: The Uncensored Original Edition 10.00
> _______
> ____ Musical Instrument Design 14.95
> _______
> ____ (plus Getting a Bigger Sound) 25.00
> _______
> ____ Overcoming Your Alcohol, Drug, and Recovery Habits 10.00
> _______
> ____ The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche 7.95
> _______
> (plus The Anti-Christ) 12.00
> _______
> _____ The Real AA: Behind the Myth (shopworn) 6.95
> _______
> ____ Resisting 12-Step Coercion 10.00
> _______
> ____ An Understandable Guide to Music Theory 7.95
> _______
> ____ What Is Anarchism? 13.95
> _______
>
> PAMPHLETS
>
> ____ America's Taliban 2.50
> _______
> ____ Among the Cannibal Christians 3.00
> _______
> ____ Anarchism & American Traditions 1.50
> _______
> ____ Anarchism vs. Primitivism 3.50
> _______
> ____ Anarchism: What It Is & What It Isn't 1.00
> _______
> ____ Anarchist Society & Its Practical Realization 1.50
> _______
> ____ The Art & Science of Billboard Imprvmt. (2nd ed.) 3.00
> _______
> ____ Astrology: Fraud or Superstition? 1.00
> _______
> ____ Bourgeois Influences on Anarchism 3.00
> _______
> ____ The Case Against Religiosity 1.00
> _______
> ____ The Catholic Church and the Sex Problem 2.50
> _______
> ____ Christianity & Slavery 3.50
> _______
> ____ The Crimes of Jehovah 2.50
> _______
> ____ Design Your Own Utopia 2.00
> _______
> ____ Dialogue Between a Priest and a Dying Atheist 2.00
> _______
> ____ Does God Exist? 2.50
> _______
> ____ A Future Worth Living 2.00
> _______
> ____ God Eating: A Study of Christianity & Cannibalism 3.00
> _______
> ____ The Heretic's Guide to the Bible 1.50
> _______
> ____ A History of Satanism 3.00
> _______
> ____ Horrors of the Inquisition 3.50
> _______
> ____ How Christianity Grew Out of Paganism 1.00
> _______
> ____ The Inefficiency of Capitalism 3.00
> _______
> ____ Judeo-Christian Degradation of Woman 3.50
> _______
> ____ Libertarian Communism 2.50
> _______
> ____ Listen Anarchist 2.00
> _______
> ____ May the Farce Be With You 2.00
> _______
> ____ The Meaning of Atheism 1.50
> _______
> ____ Pagan Christs 3.50
> _______
> ____ The Relevance of Anarchism to Modern Society 2.00
> _______
> ____ The Revolutionary Pleasure of Thinking for Yourself 1.50
> _______
> ____ Science, Society & Religion 1.50
> _______
> ____ The State 3.00
> _______
> ____ Thumbscrew & Rack 2.00
> _______
> ____ 20 Reasons to Abandon Christianity 2.00
> _______
> ____ 24 Theses for a New Women's Movement 1.50
> _______
> What God Has Revealed to Man (1 copy) .35
> _______
> (4 copies) 1.00
> _______
> (30 copies) 5.00
> _______
> (75 copies) 10.00
> _______
> ____ What Is Democracy? 2.50
> _______
> ____ Why I Am Not a Mormon 2.50
> _______
> ____ You Call This Freedom? 2.00
> _______
> ____ You Can't Blow Up a Social Relationship 1.50
> _______
>
> BUMPER STICKERS
>
> ____ Bumper Sticker Grab Bag 5.00
> _______
>
> To order individual stickers, print the page listing them,
> circle the ones you want, add up the total, and enter it here:
> _______
> (Of course, include the page with the circled stickers along
> with this form.)
> SUBTOTAL
> _______
>
> SHIPPING
> _______
> In the U.S., $3.00 for book rate; $4.50 for priority mail.
> Overseas (including Canada & Mexico) $4.50 for surface mail,
> $5 + 20% of total for air mail. (Please note that these S/H
> fees are per order, not per item.)
>
> (Please also note that all shipments to individuals are
> via the U.S. Postal Service. Due to damaged shipments and
> their refusal to honor the "insurance" they sell, we
> will not ship via UPS.)
> TOTAL
> $_______
>
>
> Print Name _______________________ Address
> __________________________________
>
> City __________________________ State _____ Zip __________ (Country)
> ________
>
> Please send this form and a check or money order in U.S. dollars to:
>
> See Sharp Press
> P.O. Box 1731
> Tucson, AZ 85702-1731
> USA
>
> Finally, you can order in-print See Sharp Press books by phone (but not
> pamphlets, bumper stickers, or our out-of-print, reduced-price books)
> with a credit card at 1-800-888-4741, 9am to 5 pm CST.
>
>
> [ top ]
> >
> > AA not for profit? Did you never hear of the multi-billion dollar
> > treatment industry?
> >
> > Do you even know who controls the "Big Book"?
> >
> > Ken Ragge
> > http://www.morerevealed.com
>
>

stuart <fred@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:awmre.62691$tt5.14201@edtnps90...
>
> <NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZUkre.842$fV.403@okepread06...
> >
> > On 13-Jun-2005, "stuart" <fred@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Fact is, you haven't.
> > > This Ken Ragge would appear to be someone with an agenda. This type of
> > > newsgroup offers some free advertising. I suspect he's selling tapes,
or
> a
> > > book or something.
> >
> > In all honesty Stuart (I made sure to double-checked your name)...
> > I've never had reason to form any opinion about him until today.
> >
> > It would seem that anyone who puts that much energy into
> > debunking 'the program' would have an agenda. But perhaps
> > he is what he claims to be... some sort of anti-crusader. Who
> > knows?
>
> Ken and his cohorts aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. Firstly, to
> come to a discussion forum with books for sale is amateurish at best.
> Secondly, and most sadly, is that Ken may have some good ideas, and many
> legitimate points
> Basic principles of salesmanship 101 in the 21st century, the information
> age, the "new age" the age of enlightenment are paramount. Are you
listening
> Ken?
> The basic premise is that reasonably intelligent and able people can
> entertain conflicting ideas simlutaneously. Ken does not understand this.
> Secondly, never never never run down the alternatives, ie "the
competition"
> if you will. Most readers will immediately begin to think you are afraid
or
> resentful of them. Bad bad bad. Problem here is that their whole package
is
> predicated on running down AA.
> By doing that, in a forum such as this, he allows his denigration of AA to
> extend to AA members, and therefore attacking a huge chunk of his
potential
> market, or at least potential followers of his ideas. Those who are here
who
> are not XA members see him attacking those who are. Very bad from a
> marketing perspective.
> What would work much better for him IMO, it to use the "yes, but"
> technique...
> example," I got sober in AA and I believe in the steps..."
> "yes, but that took you to a certain point in recovery, and although you
may
> want to stay with AA, have you considered...etc etc
>
> > NutSo (aka CW aka C Dub)
>
>