stuart wrote:
> Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:kPednd17Ao6xhjDfRVn-uw@comcast.com...
>
>>stuart wrote:
>>
>>>How to profit Kem. Create your own question and then provide an answer
>
> by
>
>>>"someone else"
>>>Your're as sleazy as Orange.
>>>Lets do an infomercial.
>>
>>Stuart,
>>
>>Are you for real? Do you really think I posted that message? Do you
>>really think that of all the millions of people exposed to AA among who
>>are 1-2 million who are coerced at the behest of AA that no one is going
>>to be critical of "The Program" or not want to go?
>
>
> Ken what gave it away was the spellcheck program all of those folks who are
> posting with glowing endorsement of your ideas. They gloss on their
> endorsement is almost radioactive.
> I don't disagree with your ideas, nut your methods are really cheesy.
> Limburger that is. Smells a little...
>

Stuart,

I've heard of a doorknob as a higher power, but a spellchecker? How
interesting.

All I posted were a few general ideas critical of the Step groups. With
between one and two million people being coerced to go every year, and
countless more who wander in believing the "spiritual, not religious"
are you really so surprised that a few people would argee with criticism?

You got caught spreading a false accusation. Isn't there a Step you
groupers are supposed to be practicing to cover it? Something about
"And when we were wrong, promptly admitted it?" Or is that only to be
done with people with more Time or people your sponsor tells you to?

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com



>
>
>
>>Do you really think that the "success" stories in AA, people who have
>>sat in the rooms and preached about their own disease, the Powerlessness
>>of the alcoholic and need for the 12-Step/Oxford Group "personal God" to
>>survive "One day at a time" are attractive to all those who wander in or
>>are forced to go?
>>
>>You folks are the ones who would fit just as well in a TV infomercial as
>>in your Fundamentalist style prayer and witness meetings. And to me,
>>you are just as credible.
>>
>>You might try thinking before you make stupid accusations. Did you get
>>that accusation from your conscious contact with God acquired through
>>working the Steps? The original founder of the Step theology, Frank
>>Buchman, had conscious contact with God and got messages too. God told
>>him "Thank Heavens for a man like Adolph Hitler . . . too bad about the
>>Jews . . ."
>>
>>Ken Ragge
>>http://www.morerevealed.com
>>

"Dan McGown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1PKdnSn5RMJ3PjDfRVn-vw@adelphia.com
> Bob,
> I try to remain civil with you but your neverending
> belligerence is unspeakably tiresome.

Thank GodHP® for that!

Bob.

stuart wrote:

> kohlrabi_croce <kohlrabi_croce@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118641198.902015.57870@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
>>Ken,
>>
>>Makes sense to me. Wow, those people are rabid. Somebody even told
>>me to stuff cotton down my throat, and somebody else told me that they
>>know better than I do, what advice is good for me.
>>
>>Fuck a bunch of that! ( from a poem which got us all kicked out of a
>>major chain booskstore)
>
>
> What message are you responding to? If it's mine, the I will tell you I have
> absolutely nothing against Ken's ideas, in fact they are good ideas. It's
> his fakery that I was criticising. He's creating an infomercial here.
>
> Don't be too harsh on recovering people, no matter what path they take, and
> it is possible they will be kind in return.
>
> After all, some of them are sick mentally. That's why they appear to have
> rabies, my friend.
>

Stuart,

So much for the Western ideal of a marketplace of ideals. We must "be
kind" meaning not critical, of a pseudo-Christian cult that not only
lies and misleads the public to gain new members, but also works hand in
hand with the government to get millions of coercees.

I don't think so.

Ken Ragge

John K. wrote:

> Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:42AD05DC.4090106@nospam.com...
>
>>Most people end up abstaining or moderating alcohol and drug use with no
>>outside assistance whatsoever. Most people who go to 12-Step struggle
>>to give it up sometimes for the rest of their lives.
>>
>
>
> You are missing just one key fact here Ken. The vast majority of people who
> show up in 12-Step meetings have *already tried* to moderate or abstain on
> their own and failed miserably. Why on earth would any serious drinker go
> anywhere near AA if he could get out of trouble by "cutting back a little" ?
> If he was coerced into going (and most of them were in trouble long before
> the judge got involved), why in the world would he go back after his tour of
> duty was up ?
>
> John K.

I'm glad "already tried" is in quotes. It is hard to tell just what you
and other groupers mean by that. I wish you'd explain.

Why do some people continue to go to Step meetings after being released
by the courts? The same reason Hari Krishnas, Moonies and Heaven's Gate
(Total Recovery Anonymous) members continue to go back.

They have been so torn down "ego deflation" that they really believe
what they've been told, that "jails, institutions, and death" awaits
anyone who leaves.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:42adaabc_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> "Dan McGown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:1PKdnSn5RMJ3PjDfRVn-vw@adelphia.com
>> Bob,
>> I try to remain civil with you but your neverending
>> belligerence is unspeakably tiresome.
>
> Thank GodHP® for that!
>
> Bob.

For which? That I'm remaining civil or that you're unspeakably tiresome?

kohlrabi_croce wrote:

>>You may really need a counsellor to teach you how to take the cotton
>>wool out of your ears, stick it in your mouth, and simply listen to
>>everyday people.
>
>
>>Bob
>
>
> Wow, yet another example of a pro-12 steps person telling someone to
> stuff fibrous materials down their throat. I guess this is not just a
> one-time
> example. How incredibly hostile. How lacking in "recovery."
>

Actually, that is exactly what recovery is about. It is setting
yourself up as wise guru surrounded by fawning followers.

In AA, in many ways, the self doesn't exist, "God relieve me of the
bondage of self." When one is a borg, an attack on the collective is
seen as an attack by all the assimilated entities.

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:

> Actually, that is exactly what recovery is about. It is setting
> yourself up as wise guru surrounded by fawning followers.
>
> In AA, in many ways, the self doesn't exist, "God relieve me of the
> bondage of self." When one is a borg, an attack on the collective is
> seen as an attack by all the assimilated entities.

Anyone who quotes Star Trek scenarios is worth emulating...
So lead on Ken. I think I'm gonna follow you around
for awhile! <b (vapid) n>

--
NutSo (aka CW aka C Dub)

NutSoFast@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Actually, that is exactly what recovery is about. It is setting
>>yourself up as wise guru surrounded by fawning followers.
>>
>>In AA, in many ways, the self doesn't exist, "God relieve me of the
>>bondage of self." When one is a borg, an attack on the collective is
>>seen as an attack by all the assimilated entities.
>
>
> Anyone who quotes Star Trek scenarios is worth emulating...
> So lead on Ken. I think I'm gonna follow you around
> for awhile! <b (vapid) n>
>

NutSoFast,

I'm really delighted to see a grouper respond so cogently when
confronted with criticism of the group.

Not only do you focus your attention on an analogy, I'll bet you can
find spelling and gramatical errors. Maybe you also have some choice
names to call. Nothing like confronting the really tough, important
issues like coercion and lying about being a relgion.

Rare is the grouper who can do more than mouth "principles before
personalities."

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com

>Thought that truism might appeal to your sensitivities. Bet you hear
>lots of wonderful stuff while your tongue is flapping.

>Bob

Oh, are you supposed to be a good example of a person working the
program?
You're not doing a very good job of it, and that's the problem a lot of
us have
with it - hypocrites like you.

On 13-Jun-2005, Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote:

> I'm really delighted to see a grouper respond so cogently when
> confronted with criticism of the group.

Which grouper might you be referring to? You shouldn't resort
to name-calling... it debases you and your cause.

> Not only do you focus your attention on an analogy, I'll bet you can
> find spelling and gramatical errors. Maybe you also have some choice
> names to call.

How's this: You're mean, uptight and overly sensitive to perceived
attacks. What I tried to do was interject some levity into the
discussion... add a little satirical flavor, so to speak.

> Nothing like confronting the really tough, important
> issues like coercion and lying about being a relgion.

Important to whom? It's your fight. I don't give a fuck
if lemmings want to dive off a cliff... let 'em jump.
I'm not out to save the world.... although I will lend a hand
on occasion if I'm able.

>
> Rare is the grouper who can do more than mouth "principles before
> personalities."

Your critique only works on Steppers... it has no affect on a
rim-runners.

Hell Ken, if you don't want the job of being my hero - all you've
got to do is decline. Jesus! Have a drink - it'll chill you out.


--
NutSo (aka CW aka C Dub)

"They talk of my drinking but never
my thirst" - Scottish Proverb