The below was forwarded by a friend and I thought it would definitely
generate some discussion????

---------------------
Subject: What Happened to AA?

What Happened? That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately.
What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping
75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren't
keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group
that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more
at every meeting. It is now a matter of history, gone! More and more groups
are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and
excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to
get worse. What is happening?

Bill W. wrote, "In the years ahead A.A. will, of course, make mistakes.
Experience has taught us that we need have no fear of doing this, providing
that we always remain willing to admit our faults and to correct them
promptly. Our growth as individuals has depended upon this healthy process
of trial and error. So will our growth as a fellowship. Let us always
remember that any society of men and women that cannot freely correct its
own faults must surely fall into decay if not into collapse. Such is the
universal penalty for the failure to go on growing. Just as each A.A. must
continue to take his moral inventory and act upon it, so must our whole
Society if we are to survive and if we are to serve usefully and well."
(A.A. Comes of Age, PG 231)

With so very few finding lasting sobriety and the continued demise of AA
groups , it is obvious that we have not remained willing to admit our faults
and to correct them promptly. Seems to me that the Delegate of the Northeast
Ohio Area, Bob Bacon, identified our mistakes and our faults when he talked
to a group of AA's in 1976.

He said, in essence, we are no longer showing the newcomer that we have a
solution for alcoholism. We are not telling them about the Big Book and how
very important that Book is to our long-term sobriety. We are not telling
them about our Traditions and how very important they are to the individual
groups and to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole. Rather, we are using our
meeting time for drunkalogs, a discussion of our problems, ideas and
opinions or my day" or "my way". Having been around for a few years, and
reflecting on what Bob Bacon had to say, it would appear that we have
permitted newcomers to convince the old-timers that they have a better idea.
They had just spent 30 or more days in a treatment facility where they had
been impressed with the need to talk about their problems in Group Therapy
Sessions. They had been told that it didn't make any difference what their
real problem was; A.A. had the "best program". They were told that they
should go to an A.A. meeting every day for the 1st 90 days out of
treatment. They were told that they shouldn't make any major decisions for
the 1st year of their sobriety. And what they were told goes on and on, most
of which are contrary to the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous!

Apparently, what they were told sounded pretty good to the A.A.members who
were here when the TC clients started showing up at our meetings. And a lot
of the A.A. members liked the idea of the treatment centers because the
centers provided a place where they could drop off a serious drinker, if
he/she had insurance. That eliminated some of the inconveniences we had been
plagued with before; having to pour orange juice and honey or a shot of
booze down a vibrating alky to help them "detox". When A.A. was very
successful, the folks who did the talking in meetings were recovered
alcoholics. The suffering and untreated alcoholics listened.

After hearing what it takes to recover, the newcomer was faced with a
decision; "Are you going to take the Steps and recover or are you going to
get back out there and finish the job?" If they said they "were willing to
go to any length", they were given a sponsor, a Big Book and began the
process of recovery by taking the Steps and experiencing the Promises that
result from that course of action. This process kept the newcomer involved
in working with others and continued the growth of our Fellowship. Our
growth rate was approximately 7% and the number of sober members of
Alcoholics Anonymous doubled every 10 years.

With the advent of the rapid growth of the Treatment Industry, the
acceptance of our success with alcoholics by the judicial system and
endorsement of physicians, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc. all kinds of
people were pouring into A.A. at a rate greater than we had ever dreamed
possible. Almost without realizing what was happening, our meetings began
changing from ones that focused on recovery from alcoholism to "discussion
or participation" types of meetings that invited everyone to talk about
whatever was on their mind.

The meetings evolved from a program of spiritual development to the group
therapy type of meeting where we heard more and more about "our problems"
and less and less about the Program of Recovery by the Big Book and the
preservation of our Fellowship by adhering to our Traditions.

What has been the result of all this? Well, never have we had so many coming
to us for help. But never have we had such a slow growth rate which has now
started to decline. For the first time in our history, Alcoholics Anonymous
is losing members faster than they are coming in and our success rate is
unbelievably low. (Statistics from the Inter-Group Office of some major
cities indicate less than 5% of those expressing a desire to stop drinking
is successful for more than 5 years; a far cry from the 75% reported by Bill
W. in the Forward to Second Edition). The change in the content of our
meetings is proving to be misery-traps for the newcomer and in turn,
misery-traps for the groups that depend on the "discussion or participation"
type meetings.

Why is this? The answer is very simple. When meetings were opened so that
untreated alcoholics & non-alcoholics were given the opportunity to express
their ideas, their opinions, air their problems and tell how they were told
to do it where they came from, the confused newcomer became more confused
with the diversity of information that was being presented. More and more
they were encouraged to "just go to meetings and don't drink" or worse yet,
"go to 90 meetings in 90 days". The newcomer no longer was told to take the
Steps or get back out there and finish the job. In fact, they are often
told, "Don't rush into taking the Steps. Take your time."

The alcoholics who participated in the writing of the Big Book didn't wait.
They took the Steps in the first few days following their last drink. Thank
God, there are those in our Fellowship, like Joe & Charlie, Wally, etc., who
have recognized the problem and have started doing something about it. They
are placing the focus back on the Big Book. There have always been a few
groups that would not yield to the group therapy trend. They stayed firm to
their commitment to try to carry a single message to the suffering
alcoholic. That is to tell the newcomer "we have had a spiritual awakening
as the result of these Steps and if you want to recover, we will see that
you have a sponsor who has recovered and will lead you along the path the
1st 100 laid down for us".

Recovered alcoholics have begun founding groups that have a single purpose
and inform the newcomer that until they have taken the steps and recovered,
they will not be permitted to say anything in meetings. They will listen to
recovered alcoholics, they will take the Steps, they will recover and then
they will try to pass their experience and knowledge on to the ones who are
seeking the kind of help we provide in Alcoholics Anonymous. As this
movement spreads, as it is beginning to, Alcoholics Anonymous will again be
very successful in doing the one thing God intended for us to do and that is
to help the suffering alcoholic recover, if he has decided he wants what we
have and is willing to go to any length to recover, to take and apply our
Twelve Steps to our lives and protect our fellowship by honoring our Twelve
Traditions.

There is a tendency to want to place the blame for our predicament on the
treatment industry and professionals. They do what they do and it has
nothing to do with what we in Alcoholics Anonymous do. That is their
business. That is not where to place the blame and also is in violation of
our Tenth Tradition. The real problem is that the members of Alcoholics
Anonymous, who were here when the "clients" began coming to our Fellowship
did not help the "clients" understand that our Program had been firmly
established since April 1939, and that the guidelines for the preservation
and growth of our Fellowship were adopted in 1950. That they must get rid of
their new "old ideas" and start practicing the Twelve Step Program of
Alcoholics Anonymous as it was given to us. That until they had taken the
Steps and recovered, they had nothing to say that needed to be heard except
by their sponsor. But that didn't happen. To he contrary, the old timers
failed in their responsibility to the newcomer to remind them of a vital
truth, "Rarely have we seen a person ail who has thoroughly followed our
path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or wi ll not completely
give themselves to this simple program." We have permitted untreated
alcoholics and non-alcoholics to sit in our meetings and lay out their
problems, ideas and opinions.

We have gone from, "Rarely have we seen a person fail" to "Seldom do we see
a person recover". So there we are. We have had 30 years of unbelievable
success by following the directions in the Big Book. We have had 30 years of
disappointing failure by wanting to hear from everyone. We now have
something to compare. We now know what the problem is and we know what the
solution is. unfortunately, we have not been prompt to correct the faults
and mistakes, which have been created by what would appear to be large doses
of apathy and complacency. The problem we are trying to live with is
needlessly killing alcoholics.

The Solution? The Power, greater than ourselves, that we find through our
Twelve Steps promises recovery for those who are willing to follow the
clear-cut directions in the Big Book. Do you want to be a part of the
problem or a part of the solution? Simple, but not easy, a price has to be
paid.

In article <C9Ihe.27959$RG2.20357@bignews5.bellsouth.net>, bobbyl2000
@bellsouth.net, Bobby L says...

> ---------------------
> Subject: What Happened to AA?
>
> What Happened? That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately.
> What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping
> 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren't
> keeping even 5%. What happened? What happened to that wonderful A.A. Group
> that was around for 20, 30 or 40 years? There used to be 50, 75, 100 or more
> at every meeting. It is now a matter of history, gone! More and more groups
> are folding every day. What happened? We hear a lot of ideas, opinions and
> excuses as to what happened but things are not improving. They continue to
> get worse. What is happening?

Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........

On 15-May-2005, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:

> Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........

Pick up what?

--
NutSo

"Bobby L" <bobbyl2000@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:C9Ihe.27959$RG2.20357@bignews5.bellsouth.net. ..
> The below was forwarded by a friend and I thought it would definitely
> generate some discussion????
>
> ---------------------
> Subject: What Happened to AA?
>
> What Happened? That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately.
> What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping
<snip>
>
> The Solution? The Power, greater than ourselves, that we find through our
> Twelve Steps promises recovery for those who are willing to follow the
> clear-cut directions in the Big Book. Do you want to be a part of the
> problem or a part of the solution? Simple, but not easy, a price has to be
> paid.
>

Bobby,
I agree that this touches on one of the big problems that bothers me
about many meetings. They talk a lot and they really worry about the first
three steps. Then they periodically go back out and occasionally give up
and say that the program isn't working for them.
The question that they don't see is: "Before you decide if the program
is working for you, are you working the program."
The Big Book stresses constantly the vital importance of working the
steps. Its doesn't talk about attending lots of meetings and it is silent
on the subject of sponsors.
Now, don't get me wrong, I attend meetings, but not because they are
the solution to my problem. I attend meetings for a number of reasons. At
first, I attended meetings because while I was at a meeting I wasn't
drinking, I enjoyed being with people to whom I didn't have to explain the
problem and it was valuable to me to be around people who had found a
solution to the problem.
None of that would have kept me sober over time, however, if I hadn't
worked the steps.
Now I attend meetings because it's my chance to pass the solution along
to the ones who haven't found it yet -- and that is itself one of the steps,
one that isn't supposed to have an ending date.
That is the part that is too often lacking. People are used to modern
medical approaches to everything and they want a magic pill or silver bullet
or touchstone that will solve their problem for them without too much effort
on their own part, but it isn't like that. The program is a tool that you
can use to solve the problem by working at it and the steps are the
blueprint. Blueprints don't assemble anything by themselves.
That may sound smug or self righteous, but I don't mean it to be.
Using an analogy from the Judeo-Christian tradition, God told Noah to build
an ark and he told him how it should be built, but God didn't build it for
him. Noah had to do that for himself.
Dan

In article <DRIhe.17590$ye1.17396@okepread06>, NutSoFast@hotmail.com,
says...
>
> On 15-May-2005, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:
>
> > Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........
>
> Pick up what?
>
>

Duh!

On 15-May-2005, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:

> > > Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........
> >
> > Pick up what?
> >
> >
>
> Duh!


Well, it's just that you make a very bold claim when you
imply that everyone who leaves AA does so because they
drink... Do you really know this to be true? I don't!

I was only encouraging you to expand on your
statement...


--
NutSo

In article <57Nhe.17629$ye1.5057@okepread06>, NutSoFast@hotmail.com,
says...

>
> On 15-May-2005, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........
> > >
> > > Pick up what?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Duh!
>
>
> Well, it's just that you make a very bold claim when you
> imply that everyone who leaves AA does so because they
> drink... Do you really know this to be true? I don't!
>
> I was only encouraging you to expand on your
> statement...
>
>
>

It "always" boils down to a personal choice to stay stopped period, at
least for "ME"....All the AA's NA's, psychotherapies this & that,
methods, can all be thrown at anyone.....In the end it's an individual
choice to use the tools available...but without a "willingness" it's a
rocky road...
Now maybe I should have been specific and also explored the other
possible reason people leave is because they are fine without a life-
long committment to 12 step programs, or seek other methods besides
AA/NA, whatever, and never pick up again.......This I apologize for
than.....My statement was not meant to be what you took from it with
your above reply....

I've been clean almost 14yrs now & have not been to a meeting in
6yrs.....Why? Because I drew the line when I had to make a decision and
start applying the tools to real life & start to live outside of the
cacoon......That's me though, I'm able to handle life on lifes
terms.....some may need the consistent program on a daily basis. I went
to AA for 3 straight years before I started to wander off with less &
less meetings, lifelong committment everyday meetings was not for
me......I'm not saying 12 step progs are lifelong I just use that kind
of statement for my own self........

The program saved my ass, but it was also time to move on..........

<NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:57Nhe.17629$ye1.5057@okepread06...
>
> On 15-May-2005, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........
> > >
> > > Pick up what?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Duh!
>
>
> Well, it's just that you make a very bold claim when you
> imply that everyone who leaves AA does so because they
> drink... Do you really know this to be true? I don't!
>
> I was only encouraging you to expand on your
> statement...
>
>
> --
> NutSo

<NutSoFast@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:57Nhe.17629$ye1.5057@okepread06...
>
> On 15-May-2005, ByTor <ByTor@snowdog.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Personal choice to pick up again that's whats happening.........
> > >
> > > Pick up what?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Duh!
>
>
> Well, it's just that you make a very bold claim when you
> imply that everyone who leaves AA does so because they
> drink... Do you really know this to be true? I don't!
>
> I was only encouraging you to expand on your
> statement...
>


ByTor said nothing about those leaving AA -- He made mention of a reason for
those who do not stay sober.
The article was not about people leaving AA to stay sober -- it was about
less people getting sober and less people staying sober.

Bobby L

> Subject: What Happened to AA?
>
> What Happened? That question is being asked by a lot of alcoholics lately.
> What happened to our high success rate? 30 & 40 years ago, we were keeping
> 75% or more of the alcoholics who came to us for help. Today, we aren't
> keeping even 5%. What happened?

Part of it is court ordered appointments. It skews the numbers. AA used to
be mainly for people that wanted it. Now it is to get the court signiture,
or a marriage counselor suggestes that it will get the spouse back. The
door is now open to more people for various reasons. They drop out because
they don't really believe the 1st step.

Also, part of it could be the way statistics are measured. When numbers
were lower a person may have gone in and out 4 or 5 times. That was still
only one person. Now, it's 5 droupouts. Part of that is because we are
more of a mobile society and there are more meetings now.

I still believe what is said at meetings, "It works if you work it."

RG