I'm constantly cross-posting these alcohol stories but no one ever
seems to comment. Even the people at the very busy newsgroup:
<news:alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism> don't seem to be able to
summon the enthusiam to demand a ban on booze.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

<http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1006704,00.html>

Drinking crackdown to call time on 'happy hour' binges

Gaby Hinsliff, chief political correspondent
Sunday July 27, 2003
The Observer

Time is about to be called on 'happy hour'. The ritual that has
kick-started a million drunken nights on the tiles, but has also been
slammed as fuelling an epidemic of binge drinking, is facing a tough
government crackdown that will limit pubs' ability to offer cheap
booze.

The change comes amid growing concerns about the impact of
round-the-clock drinking on urban life and a culture of casual
violence and anti-social behaviour that is blighting many city centres
packed with bars and clubs.

Councils will be allowed to intervene in cases where happy hour stunts
are designed purely to get people drunk. It is expected to be based on
a code of practice drawn up by the pub trade outlawing such stunts as
offering free drinks during football matches if England score.
Although voluntary, bars that refuse to join could be denied licences.

The move comes as a Commons inquiry is expected to warn this week that
while a boom in the nation's nightlife - with changes in the licensing
laws meaning pubs could open 24 hours a day from 2005 - could create
jobs and help regenerate inner cities by drawing people back in, it
must also be carefully controlled to avoid havoc on the streets.

Figures in the brewing industry welcomed the idea. 'We undoubtedly
recognise that there are some cowboys out there who run irresponsible
promotions,' said Mark Hastings, spokesman for the British Beer and
Pub Association. 'Anything that is directly encouraging people to
drink to excess is an irresponsible promotion, as is anything that
encourages widespread drunkenness.'

However, an outright ban on happy hours is impossible, Ministers say,
because it would be considered price fixing.

The new guidance on happy hours is to be published by the Department
for Culture, Media and Sport this autumn and reflects growing concern
over drinking culture. Last week doctors last week demanded health
warnings like those found on cigarette packets be placed on bottles of
alcohol.

Two out of five Britons aged 18 to 24 are classified as 'binge
drinkers' - downing more than eight units a night (men) or six
(women). Doctors are now seeing twentysomething women already
suffering from liver problems because of alcohol.

It is not just drinkers' health that is at risk. Recent Home Office
research found binge drinkers three times more likely to commit
criminal offences, particularly violent ones.

The Government argues its plan to scrap early closing times will
encourage a Continental culture of measured consumption, ending the
frenzied rush to drink as much as possible before last orders. The
Association of Chief Police Officers backschange, arguing that
staggering closing times throughout the night will ease the pressure
on police when the pubs shut.

But critics argue it may only encourage bingeing. The report from the
Commons Urban Affairs Sub-Committee, 'The Evening Economy and the
Urban Renaissance', to be launched this week in Manchester is expected
to argue that booming nightlife could put new strains on citydwellers,
warning local residents should not have to pay for extra policing,
night buses and street cleaning to cope with drunken revellers.

The MPs are also expected to demand better late-night transport to
ferry drinkers home. In smaller towns, taxi queues are flashpoints for
trouble as too many people fight over too few cabs, while in cities
women risk sex attacks by resorting to unregistered minicabs.

Crucially however the MPs - who heard from Minister Kim Howells that
central Manchester became 'like a war zone' when its nightlife took
off in the 1990s because of overcrowding - are also expected to
recommend letting councils set 'capacity' limits, stopping new bars
opening in areas saturated with them.

It is the sheer volume of bars fighting for punters that lies behind
the ever more frenzied 'happy hour' discounts, says Simon Milton,
leader of Westminster council, which covers London's booming West End.

'Happy hours per se needn't be a problem. What is a problem is when
you have an oversupply of premises, there is price competition, and
you get ridiculous, very low prices,' he said.

"Jasbird" <jasbird#deletethis#@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:6gt6iv4m3slaq2rhrau9k3h6c8kdscsvs3@4ax.com...
> It is the sheer volume of bars fighting for punters that lies behind
> the ever more frenzied 'happy hour' discounts, says Simon Milton,
> leader of Westminster council, which covers London's booming West End.
>
> 'Happy hours per se needn't be a problem. What is a problem is when
> you have an oversupply of premises, there is price competition, and
> you get ridiculous, very low prices,' he said.
>
>


hahahaha, pommie bureaurocrats even complaining about competition driven low
prices. They deserve to get ripped off.

Bob;-)

"Jasbird" <jasbird#deletethis#@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:6gt6iv4m3slaq2rhrau9k3h6c8kdscsvs3@4ax.com...
> I'm constantly cross-posting these alcohol stories but no one ever
> seems to comment. Even the people at the very busy newsgroup:
> <news:alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism> don't seem to be able to
> summon the enthusiam to demand a ban on booze.
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

"We are careful never to show intolerance or hatred of drinking as an
institution. Experience shows that such an attitude is not helpful to
anyone. Every new alcoholic looks for this spirit among us and is immensely
relieved when he finds we are not witchburners. A sprit of intolerance
might repel alcoholics whose lives could have been saved, had it not been
for such stupidity. we could not even do the cause of temperate drinking
any good, for not one drinker in a thousand likes to be told anything about
alcohol by someone who hates it."

"alcoholics Anonymous" pg. 103, 3rd ed.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 06:56:26 GMT, Jasbird
<jasbird#deletethis#@myrealbox.com> wrote:

>The move comes as a Commons inquiry is expected to warn this week that
>while a boom in the nation's nightlife - with changes in the licensing
>laws meaning pubs could open 24 hours a day from 2005 - could create
>jobs and help regenerate inner cities by drawing people back in, it
>must also be carefully controlled to avoid havoc on the streets.

Open legal cannabis cafes instead. Keep the price of pot low and the
price of booze high. This way everybody wins, jobs are created, people
can enjoy nightlife and the streets are filled with happy, smiling,
peaceable people at closing time instead of raucous, bellowing,
belligerent and generally anti social piss heads spewing their way
home and picking fights with everybody. And nobody wakes up with a
skull splitting hangover next day, either.

I suppose an altogether far too sensible solution for it ever to be
tried.

Clough

Nope,

We don't have time to read cross-posting spam! And there is also the
history of the prohibition. You do have access to a history book, do you
not?


"Jasbird" <jasbird#deletethis#@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:6gt6iv4m3slaq2rhrau9k3h6c8kdscsvs3@4ax.com...
> I'm constantly cross-posting these alcohol stories but no one ever
> seems to comment. Even the people at the very busy newsgroup:
> <news:alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism> don't seem to be able to
> summon the enthusiam to demand a ban on booze.
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>
> <http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1006704,00.html>
>
> Drinking crackdown to call time on 'happy hour' binges
>
> Gaby Hinsliff, chief political correspondent
> Sunday July 27, 2003
> The Observer
>
> Time is about to be called on 'happy hour'. The ritual that has
> kick-started a million drunken nights on the tiles, but has also been
> slammed as fuelling an epidemic of binge drinking, is facing a tough
> government crackdown that will limit pubs' ability to offer cheap
> booze.
>
> The change comes amid growing concerns about the impact of
> round-the-clock drinking on urban life and a culture of casual
> violence and anti-social behaviour that is blighting many city centres
> packed with bars and clubs.
>
> Councils will be allowed to intervene in cases where happy hour stunts
> are designed purely to get people drunk. It is expected to be based on
> a code of practice drawn up by the pub trade outlawing such stunts as
> offering free drinks during football matches if England score.
> Although voluntary, bars that refuse to join could be denied licences.
>
> The move comes as a Commons inquiry is expected to warn this week that
> while a boom in the nation's nightlife - with changes in the licensing
> laws meaning pubs could open 24 hours a day from 2005 - could create
> jobs and help regenerate inner cities by drawing people back in, it
> must also be carefully controlled to avoid havoc on the streets.
>
> Figures in the brewing industry welcomed the idea. 'We undoubtedly
> recognise that there are some cowboys out there who run irresponsible
> promotions,' said Mark Hastings, spokesman for the British Beer and
> Pub Association. 'Anything that is directly encouraging people to
> drink to excess is an irresponsible promotion, as is anything that
> encourages widespread drunkenness.'
>
> However, an outright ban on happy hours is impossible, Ministers say,
> because it would be considered price fixing.
>
> The new guidance on happy hours is to be published by the Department
> for Culture, Media and Sport this autumn and reflects growing concern
> over drinking culture. Last week doctors last week demanded health
> warnings like those found on cigarette packets be placed on bottles of
> alcohol.
>
> Two out of five Britons aged 18 to 24 are classified as 'binge
> drinkers' - downing more than eight units a night (men) or six
> (women). Doctors are now seeing twentysomething women already
> suffering from liver problems because of alcohol.
>
> It is not just drinkers' health that is at risk. Recent Home Office
> research found binge drinkers three times more likely to commit
> criminal offences, particularly violent ones.
>
> The Government argues its plan to scrap early closing times will
> encourage a Continental culture of measured consumption, ending the
> frenzied rush to drink as much as possible before last orders. The
> Association of Chief Police Officers backschange, arguing that
> staggering closing times throughout the night will ease the pressure
> on police when the pubs shut.
>
> But critics argue it may only encourage bingeing. The report from the
> Commons Urban Affairs Sub-Committee, 'The Evening Economy and the
> Urban Renaissance', to be launched this week in Manchester is expected
> to argue that booming nightlife could put new strains on citydwellers,
> warning local residents should not have to pay for extra policing,
> night buses and street cleaning to cope with drunken revellers.
>
> The MPs are also expected to demand better late-night transport to
> ferry drinkers home. In smaller towns, taxi queues are flashpoints for
> trouble as too many people fight over too few cabs, while in cities
> women risk sex attacks by resorting to unregistered minicabs.
>
> Crucially however the MPs - who heard from Minister Kim Howells that
> central Manchester became 'like a war zone' when its nightlife took
> off in the 1990s because of overcrowding - are also expected to
> recommend letting councils set 'capacity' limits, stopping new bars
> opening in areas saturated with them.
>
> It is the sheer volume of bars fighting for punters that lies behind
> the ever more frenzied 'happy hour' discounts, says Simon Milton,
> leader of Westminster council, which covers London's booming West End.
>
> 'Happy hours per se needn't be a problem. What is a problem is when
> you have an oversupply of premises, there is price competition, and
> you get ridiculous, very low prices,' he said.
>
>

> > > I'm constantly cross-posting these alcohol stories but no one ever
> > > seems to comment. Even the people at the very busy newsgroup:
> > > <news:alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism> don't seem to be able to
> > > summon the enthusiam to demand a ban on booze.
> > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> >
> > "We are careful never to show intolerance or hatred of drinking as an
> > institution. Experience shows that such an attitude is not helpful to
> > anyone. Every new alcoholic looks for this spirit among us and is
immensely
> > relieved when he finds we are not witchburners. A sprit of intolerance
> > might repel alcoholics whose lives could have been saved, had it not
been
> > for such stupidity. we could not even do the cause of temperate
drinking
> > any good, for not one drinker in a thousand likes to be told anything
about
> > alcohol by someone who hates it."
> >
> > "alcoholics Anonymous" pg. 103, 3rd ed.
> >
> >
>
> So, where it the spirit of tolerance and the acknowledgement that all
> prohibition ideology is nothing more than witchburning and intolerance so
that
> those who demonstrate pathological use of other drugs can also seek
recovery in
> an atmosphere free from hate?

Are you asking why they don't like to talk about drugs at an AA meeting?
it's because we are a program of recovery from the use of alcohol. we do
this through the stories of other drunks like us. NA spun off so that those
who used drugs more than alcohol can connect and help each other. I know an
OA that likes to go to AA meetings, as there aren't enough OA meetings a
week for her taste.

During those meetings she uses AA language *out of respect for us.*
Language like "clean, bingo's, jackpot's, clean time, using, addict..." have
no place in an AA meeting, in the same way that I don't use "drunk,
alcoholic, drink..." during an NA meeting. It's out of respect for the
other peoples' programs. I am also active in the Young peoples' group of AA,
where drugs are a part of most members' stories. However even at YPG
meetings, an apology is made before talking about any drugs, and it is kept
to a minimum, as we are trying to work a program of recovery from alcohol.

I'm sorry if you were shut down during an AA meeting. It happens sometimes;
sometimes for the right reasons, and sometimes for ego's sake. Please
remember that we are all sick individuals trying to get well. Resentments
only hurt those that hold them.

I am in alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism (I don't wish to crosspost
anymore).

I wish you all the best that life has to offer you Richard.

Shaw

>
>
>

"Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:m0j7ivst6bqcndkvsuhe6gfr3u1nlch2bf@4ax.com...
> Open legal cannabis cafes instead. Keep the price of pot low and the
> price of booze high. This way everybody wins, jobs are created, people
> can enjoy nightlife and the streets are filled with happy, smiling,
> peaceable people...........................

And then.....opium dens and crack houses.

- Cartman

"Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0j-dnXHMB-1he76iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net...
> "Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
> news:m0j7ivst6bqcndkvsuhe6gfr3u1nlch2bf@4ax.com...
> > Open legal cannabis cafes instead. Keep the price of pot low and the
> > price of booze high. This way everybody wins, jobs are created, people
> > can enjoy nightlife and the streets are filled with happy, smiling,
> > peaceable people...........................
>
> And then.....opium dens and crack houses.

Well they allow KFCs, McDonalds & Burger Kings and look how many they
apparently addict and kill.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/wo...00/2708367.stm

Slatts

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 06:56:26 GMT, Jasbird
<jasbird#deletethis#@myrealbox.com>

>I'm constantly cross-posting these alcohol stories but no one ever
>seems to comment. Even the people at the very busy newsgroup:
><news:alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism> don't seem to be able to
>summon the enthusiam to demand a ban on booze.

I don't usually comment because it's not news to me that alcohol is a
dangerous drug. Nevertheless, I don't think banning it would help.

> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>
><http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1006704,00.html>
>
>Drinking crackdown to call time on 'happy hour' binges
>
>Gaby Hinsliff, chief political correspondent
>Sunday July 27, 2003
>The Observer
>
>Time is about to be called on 'happy hour'. The ritual that has
>kick-started a million drunken nights on the tiles, but has also been
>slammed as fuelling an epidemic of binge drinking, is facing a tough
>government crackdown that will limit pubs' ability to offer cheap
>booze.
>
>The change comes amid growing concerns about the impact of
>round-the-clock drinking on urban life and a culture of casual
>violence and anti-social behaviour that is blighting many city centres
>packed with bars and clubs.
>
>Councils will be allowed to intervene in cases where happy hour stunts
>are designed purely to get people drunk. It is expected to be based on
>a code of practice drawn up by the pub trade outlawing such stunts as
>offering free drinks during football matches if England score.
>Although voluntary, bars that refuse to join could be denied licences.
>
>The move comes as a Commons inquiry is expected to warn this week that
>while a boom in the nation's nightlife - with changes in the licensing
>laws meaning pubs could open 24 hours a day from 2005 - could create
>jobs and help regenerate inner cities by drawing people back in, it
>must also be carefully controlled to avoid havoc on the streets.
>
>Figures in the brewing industry welcomed the idea. 'We undoubtedly
>recognise that there are some cowboys out there who run irresponsible
>promotions,' said Mark Hastings, spokesman for the British Beer and
>Pub Association. 'Anything that is directly encouraging people to
>drink to excess is an irresponsible promotion, as is anything that
>encourages widespread drunkenness.'
>
>However, an outright ban on happy hours is impossible, Ministers say,
>because it would be considered price fixing.
>
>The new guidance on happy hours is to be published by the Department
>for Culture, Media and Sport this autumn and reflects growing concern
>over drinking culture. Last week doctors last week demanded health
>warnings like those found on cigarette packets be placed on bottles of
>alcohol.
>
>Two out of five Britons aged 18 to 24 are classified as 'binge
>drinkers' - downing more than eight units a night (men) or six
>(women). Doctors are now seeing twentysomething women already
>suffering from liver problems because of alcohol.
>
>It is not just drinkers' health that is at risk. Recent Home Office
>research found binge drinkers three times more likely to commit
>criminal offences, particularly violent ones.
>
>The Government argues its plan to scrap early closing times will
>encourage a Continental culture of measured consumption, ending the
>frenzied rush to drink as much as possible before last orders. The
>Association of Chief Police Officers backschange, arguing that
>staggering closing times throughout the night will ease the pressure
>on police when the pubs shut.
>
>But critics argue it may only encourage bingeing. The report from the
>Commons Urban Affairs Sub-Committee, 'The Evening Economy and the
>Urban Renaissance', to be launched this week in Manchester is expected
>to argue that booming nightlife could put new strains on citydwellers,
>warning local residents should not have to pay for extra policing,
>night buses and street cleaning to cope with drunken revellers.
>
>The MPs are also expected to demand better late-night transport to
>ferry drinkers home. In smaller towns, taxi queues are flashpoints for
>trouble as too many people fight over too few cabs, while in cities
>women risk sex attacks by resorting to unregistered minicabs.
>
>Crucially however the MPs - who heard from Minister Kim Howells that
>central Manchester became 'like a war zone' when its nightlife took
>off in the 1990s because of overcrowding - are also expected to
>recommend letting councils set 'capacity' limits, stopping new bars
>opening in areas saturated with them.
>
>It is the sheer volume of bars fighting for punters that lies behind
>the ever more frenzied 'happy hour' discounts, says Simon Milton,
>leader of Westminster council, which covers London's booming West End.
>
>'Happy hours per se needn't be a problem. What is a problem is when
>you have an oversupply of premises, there is price competition, and
>you get ridiculous, very low prices,' he said.
>

"Cartman" <omar_adebisi@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<0j-dnXHMB-1he76iRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>...
> "Clough" <inuit@canoemail.com> wrote in message
> news:m0j7ivst6bqcndkvsuhe6gfr3u1nlch2bf@4ax.com...
> > Open legal cannabis cafes instead. Keep the price of pot low and the
> > price of booze high. This way everybody wins, jobs are created, people
> > can enjoy nightlife and the streets are filled with happy, smiling,
> > peaceable people...........................
>
> And then.....opium dens and crack houses.
>
> - Cartman

I hate slippery slope arguments. To me it reveals that the person
making that argument really has no good reasoning against the point in
question, so he tries to link it to something worse. Its like we
would somehow lose all common sense or our ability to vote our
conscience once we admit the benign behavior.

Utter nonsense.
Adam