"catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:bf9vmu$l5e$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I apologise:
>

For What?


> - for having managed to stay off booze for the past few weeks without
having attended AA meetings;

That is your choice completely. It does not affect me at all.

>
> - for the fact that my success appears to greatly irritate you,

No one here is irritated except you, hon. I have been where you are and I
know it appears that some are irritated with you, but not so. You are
posting in a group about alcoholism and recovery. There will be things you
hear or are told about you that you may have a hard time accepting. I didn't
want to hear what I was doing wrong. I am glad I started listening to the
suggestions and started taking a good look at myself, not everyone else.


and finally
>
> - for deciding to stick around and therefore to continue to further
irritate you.

I have a feeling that isn't the way it will work in this group..

>
> Now, I'm thanking you for your robust questioning of and comments on
things I have said. I am happy
> to admit that you, as well as others here, are: making me question my
beliefs;

That is good. My old beliefs kept me drunk. I had to change a lot of my
beliefs syetem in order to start recovering.


opening my eyes and
> ears to many new ideas; and furthering my understanding of how alcoholism
can be successfully
> overcome. I'm very grateful for all these things. If me telling you that I
consider you to be a good
> influence on me makes you happy, then I , too, shall be happy.

Lastly, I don't base my happiness on anyone. I did that for years and that
kept me drunk, too. I had to learn how to be happy with and love myself
before I could be truly happy or love anything else.

>
> I hope you will continue to take an interest in my efforts to stay off
booze.

Hon, that is what we are here for. No one in here wants to harm or hurt you.
I wish for you all that has been given to me. Stick around and even make
some meetings. Are you afraid to go to a meeting or have concerns about
going? Maybe we can help.

>
> All the very best
>
> JB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:bf9vmu$l5e$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...


>> - for having managed to stay off booze for the past few weeks


I for got to tell you that a few weeks is great! When I first attemped it,
and many times, a day seemed like an eternity.. I am glad that you haven't
picked up a drink.
Please don't killfile us. You just might miss out on something you need to
hear. For me, that means I am getting stronger and more acceptance and
tolerance of others if I don't killfile or block them just becasue I don't
want or care what they have to say. I have learned a lot from people in here
that I had blocked on more than one occasion...LOL Hope you do the same.
Best,
Gail

I did not say she was doing anything wrong by staying sober. I got sober
with the help of other ways, too. Since she said she was working the steps,
I assumed she was using AA. I hope she sticks around and I know for sure she
will hear of the other ways, too. Please tell her..
Best,
Gail


Totfit wrote:
> Doesn't sound like she is doing anything wrong if she is staying
> sober. People get sober in many different ways. While I am a member
> of AA, most people do not use AA to get sober. Actually, though you
> do not know
> because one is involve with only other AA members and it "seems" the
> only way to get sober it is definitely not. There are other groups
> besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some studies
> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. Really the
> only 100% requirement for sobriety is not to drink, period. Like I
> stated, I
> am a member of AA, but I discount no one else's path.
>
> Gregg
>
> Gail wrote:
>
>> "catsruleok" <catsruleok@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:bf9vmu$l5e$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>>> I apologise:
>>>
>>
>>
>> For What?
>>
>>
>>
>>> - for having managed to stay off booze for the past few weeks
>>> without
>>
>> having attended AA meetings;
>>
>> That is your choice completely. It does not affect me at all.
>>
>>
>>> - for the fact that my success appears to greatly irritate you,
>>
>>
>> No one here is irritated except you, hon. I have been where you are
>> and I know it appears that some are irritated with you, but not so.
>> You are posting in a group about alcoholism and recovery. There will
>> be things you hear or are told about you that you may have a hard
>> time accepting. I didn't want to hear what I was doing wrong. I am
>> glad I started listening to the suggestions and started taking a
>> good look at myself, not everyone else.
>>
>>
>> and finally
>>
>>> - for deciding to stick around and therefore to continue to further
>>
>> irritate you.
>>
>> I have a feeling that isn't the way it will work in this group..
>>
>>
>>> Now, I'm thanking you for your robust questioning of and comments on
>>
>> things I have said. I am happy
>>
>>> to admit that you, as well as others here, are: making me question
>>> my
>>
>> beliefs;
>>
>> That is good. My old beliefs kept me drunk. I had to change a lot of
>> my beliefs syetem in order to start recovering.
>>
>>
>> opening my eyes and
>>
>>> ears to many new ideas; and furthering my understanding of how
>>> alcoholism
>>
>> can be successfully
>>
>>> overcome. I'm very grateful for all these things. If me telling you
>>> that I
>>
>> consider you to be a good
>>
>>> influence on me makes you happy, then I , too, shall be happy.
>>
>>
>> Lastly, I don't base my happiness on anyone. I did that for years
>> and that kept me drunk, too. I had to learn how to be happy with and
>> love myself before I could be truly happy or love anything else.
>>
>>
>>> I hope you will continue to take an interest in my efforts to stay
>>> off
>>
>> booze.
>>
>> Hon, that is what we are here for. No one in here wants to harm or
>> hurt you. I wish for you all that has been given to me. Stick around
>> and even make some meetings. Are you afraid to go to a meeting or
>> have concerns about going? Maybe we can help.
>>
>>
>>> All the very best
>>>
>>> JB

"Totfit" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2vudnUI0iqOfJ4WiXTWJhg@comcast.com...
> , most people do not use AA to get sober. (snip) > There are other groups
> besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some studies
> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. >
> Gregg
>
>
I'd like to see your "studies" showing the MAJORITY of alcoholics get sober
on their own. I have to call "bullshit" on that.


The "majority" of alcoholics never get sober AT ALL. Studies I've seen say
that fewer than 1 in 10, more like 1 in 12 or 13 alcoholics ever even make
an attempt to "do something" about their drinking. And out of that 7-8% of
the alcoholic population who seek recovery help, only 1 in 10 ever "makes
it".

If your statement that "most people do not use AA to get sober" were true,
how can you explain the fact that virtually all of the in-patient recovery
facilities have AA meetings on site or bus the "inmates" to a local meeting?
How can you explain that the DUI schools call AA for speakers? If AA were
as feckless as you seem to think, why would these recovery professionals be
relying on AA groups for support and aftercare?

As the PI-CPI rep at my home group, I get to talk to a lot of recovery
professionals. MD's, MSW's, Psychologists, and the like. They all know
that, despite all it's warts, AA is one of their best resources. I have
yet to run into a recovery professional who advised his/her patients not to
go to AA.

In news:b8dSa.2784$wv6.1649@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com,
Moonraker <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> typed:
> "Totfit" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2vudnUI0iqOfJ4WiXTWJhg@comcast.com...
>> , most people do not use AA to get sober. (snip) > There are other
>> groups besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some
>> studies
>> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. >
>> Gregg
>>
>>
> I'd like to see your "studies" showing the MAJORITY of alcoholics get
> sober on their own. I have to call "bullshit" on that.
>
>
> The "majority" of alcoholics never get sober AT ALL. Studies I've
> seen say that fewer than 1 in 10, more like 1 in 12 or 13 alcoholics
> ever even make an attempt to "do something" about their drinking.
> And out of that 7-8% of the alcoholic population who seek recovery
> help, only 1 in 10 ever "makes it".
>
> If your statement that "most people do not use AA to get sober" were
> true, how can you explain the fact that virtually all of the
> in-patient recovery facilities have AA meetings on site or bus the
> "inmates" to a local meeting? How can you explain that the DUI
> schools call AA for speakers? If AA were as feckless as you seem to
> think, why would these recovery professionals be relying on AA
> groups for support and aftercare?
>
> As the PI-CPI rep at my home group, I get to talk to a lot of
> recovery professionals. MD's, MSW's, Psychologists, and the like.
> They all know that, despite all it's warts, AA is one of their best
> resources. I have yet to run into a recovery professional who
> advised his/her patients not to go to AA.

The official line taken by Manchester Health Authority, is to not recommend
AA as it is considered dated and dangerous. Not all follow this line of
course, but a good friend of mine who is a worker for the Manchester
Community Alcohol and Drug Team assures me that this is the official line.
The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
start dinking again. I don't know what the rest of the UKs Health
authorities stances are but I would assume they are similar in outlook.

> The official line taken by Manchester Health Authority, is to not
recommend
> AA as it is considered dated and dangerous. Not all follow this line of
> course, but a good friend of mine who is a worker for the Manchester
> Community Alcohol and Drug Team assures me that this is the official line.
> The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
> drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
> start dinking again. I don't know what the rest of the UKs Health
> authorities stances are but I would assume they are similar in outlook.

Dear Pauly
With all due respect that sounds a lot like 'sex is dated and dangerous and
we thus recommend cloning...' I can tell you that sex is the best thing
since chewing gum and AA is the best thing since Paw fell off the water
cart.
Kind regards
Mias
14 years clean and sober with AA and enjoying every second!
"pauly" <me@me.com> wrote in message
news:f_NSa.6153$47.1718424@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> In news:b8dSa.2784$wv6.1649@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com,
> Moonraker <fuggadaboutit@bellsouth.net> typed:
> > "Totfit" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:2vudnUI0iqOfJ4WiXTWJhg@comcast.com...
> >> , most people do not use AA to get sober. (snip) > There are other
> >> groups besides AA and many get sober without any group at all, some
> >> studies
> >> show the majority of alcoholics get sober on their own. >
> >> Gregg
> >>
> >>
> > I'd like to see your "studies" showing the MAJORITY of alcoholics get
> > sober on their own. I have to call "bullshit" on that.
> >
> >
> > The "majority" of alcoholics never get sober AT ALL. Studies I've
> > seen say that fewer than 1 in 10, more like 1 in 12 or 13 alcoholics
> > ever even make an attempt to "do something" about their drinking.
> > And out of that 7-8% of the alcoholic population who seek recovery
> > help, only 1 in 10 ever "makes it".
> >
> > If your statement that "most people do not use AA to get sober" were
> > true, how can you explain the fact that virtually all of the
> > in-patient recovery facilities have AA meetings on site or bus the
> > "inmates" to a local meeting? How can you explain that the DUI
> > schools call AA for speakers? If AA were as feckless as you seem to
> > think, why would these recovery professionals be relying on AA
> > groups for support and aftercare?
> >
> > As the PI-CPI rep at my home group, I get to talk to a lot of
> > recovery professionals. MD's, MSW's, Psychologists, and the like.
> > They all know that, despite all it's warts, AA is one of their best
> > resources. I have yet to run into a recovery professional who
> > advised his/her patients not to go to AA.
>
> The official line taken by Manchester Health Authority, is to not
recommend
> AA as it is considered dated and dangerous. Not all follow this line of
> course, but a good friend of mine who is a worker for the Manchester
> Community Alcohol and Drug Team assures me that this is the official line.
> The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
> drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
> start dinking again. I don't know what the rest of the UKs Health
> authorities stances are but I would assume they are similar in outlook.
>
>

..
> > The part they consider dangerous is the taking away the responsibility for
> > drinking away from the alcoholic, as it is too easy to use as an excuse to
> > start dinking again.


i hear this complaint over and over and it obviously is made by folks WHO DO NOT know anything about AA.

i was NEVER relieved of responsibility for my disease.
rosie

> Among many in AA there is often an inherent mistrust of doctors.
> Little surprise, considering all the damage the medical profession has
> done in the past 30+ years.


>
> What you say is kind of odd too, in that the lack of medical detox
> facilities is causing the Drug and Alcohol Service (at least in
> Dorset) to actually "prescribe" alcohol to alcoholics, to avoid the
> bad press of alcoholic fits.
>
> --
> Blue Moon

in a lot of the USA, things are handled much differently. i hear very few comments that would indicated lack of trust in
the medical profession.
(complaints about HMO/PPO but not the actual doctors)
i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.

certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
rosie

I hardly think your not hearing complaints about doctors is indicative of
not having a national health program. Not having a national health program
guarantees only that people with better insurance will get adequate health
care. As far as treatment for alcoholism goes, many folks with insurance,
but not the best are given a minimum detox and then being put back out, even
if they desire and require further treatment. Not having a national health
program keeps things as they have been, that is the richest country in the
world having people get inadequate care because they are only contributing
to the wealth of those above them, but don't have the assets to get good
insurance.

Gregg

"rosie readandpost" <readandpost@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zqaTa.23356$7O4.502301@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> in a lot of the USA, things are handled much differently. i hear very few
comments that would indicated lack of trust in
> the medical profession.
> (complaints about HMO/PPO but not the actual doctors)
> i suppose that is due to lack of a NATIONAL health program.
>
> certainly NOT perfect, but very doable.
> rosie
>
>
>

gregg,
i don't disagree with you, about the state of our country, and its health care not being adequate or equal.
i don't see national health as the answer however.
YMMV

--
read and post daily, it works!
rosie

if past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians.
............................................. warren buffett



"Gregg Fowler" <gregg_fowler@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message news:96idnW4GpZTZGYCiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
> I hardly think your not hearing complaints about doctors is indicative of
> not having a national health program. Not having a national health program
> guarantees only that people with better insurance will get adequate health
> care. As far as treatment for alcoholism goes, many folks with insurance,
> but not the best are given a minimum detox and then being put back out, even
> if they desire and require further treatment. Not having a national health
> program keeps things as they have been, that is the richest country in the
> world having people get inadequate care because they are only contributing
> to the wealth of those above them, but don't have the assets to get good
> insurance.
>
> Gregg