If you were to try putting the question "can alcoholics recover and
drink normally again?" to members of your family, friends and
neighbours, they would probably come up by way of response with the
tired old clichés from Alcoholics Anonymous like "once an alcoholic,
always an alcoholic" or "just one drink sets up the compulsion".

But if you try keying in the question "can alcoholics recover and
drink normally again" on one of the main Internet search engines like
Google, MSN, Yahoo, Lycos or AskJeeves, you will come up with a very
different answer.

The top result listed on all the major search engines will link you
through to one of the websites run by Murdoch and Lilian MacDonald,
two former alcoholics who have recovered from alcoholism so completely
that they are now able to take a drink quite normally and safely
again, if and when they so wish.

Murdoch (58) and Lilian (60), a married couple from Ayrshire in
Scotland, have set up their websites to tell their story to the world.
Because until now they believe that alcoholics have had a raw deal, as
the quasi-monopoly enjoyed by Alcoholics Anonymous has effectively
denied them any real choice about their own treatment.

"We are not against anybody going to AA if that's what they want,"
says Lilian. "But we say that lifelong sobriety is not recovery from
alcoholism, as AA prescribes. That is only treating the symptom rather
than the underlying cause, and as such is merely a damage-limitation
exercise."

"Alcoholism is not a disease, as AA and other 12-Step programmes
maintain," argues Murdoch. "Alcoholism, like other so-called
addictions, is a behaviour problem stemming from childhood. There is
no reason why anybody who is prepared to identify and address these
issues from the past cannot make a real and full recovery and drink
safely and normally again, if and when they so wish. We know, and we
do.

"Nobody is incapable of changing their behaviour. And that is one of
the fundamental differences between Alcoholics Anonymous and us. AA
disempowers people – the first of the Twelve Steps says: "We admitted
we were powerless over alcohol" – but we are fighting to give them
that power back."

Ten years ago the couple had hit rock bottom, sleeping rough for two
weeks on the streets of Cambridge, where a quarter of a century
previously as an undergraduate Murdoch had received an honours degree
in English Literature. They had moved there from Ayr with the idea of
Murdoch doing research for a doctorate (PhD), but reverted to their
old habits, started binge drinking, and were thrown out of their
lodgings.

After a fortnight, and when they were just about at the end of their
tether, two nurses on their way home after a Saturday night out took
pity on Lilian and Murdoch, bought them a cup of tea and found them a
place in a homeless hostel.

The couple spent the next twelve months there getting to the roots of
their alcoholism. They tried AA one last time, before concluding that
it was a quasi-religious cult whose ideas on alcoholism were
inadequate and outdated.

Instead, by reading psychology, they decided that the causes of their
alcoholic behaviour lay in problems experienced during childhood. And
that once these problems were realised and addressed, there was no
longer any need for escape through alcoholism, and they could even
drink normally like other people again.

Ten years after selling newspapers from a stand in Market Square,
Cambridge, so that he and Lilian could get back on their feet
financially, Murdoch now writes his own regular column in the local
weekly paper and also runs his own public relations consultancy.

And Lilian is so keen to pass on the benefits of their experience to
others who still have problems with alcohol, that the couple are
building a website www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com to spread
their message of hope.

They also have a community group website at
http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain which includes a
chat room and message board where members can exchange thoughts, ideas
and experiences.

Lilian and Murdoch have completed the first draft of a book about
their experiences, and a London literary agent is currently looking
for a suitable publisher.

Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald's web links:

Main website:

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com

Community websites

http://groups.msn.com/Alcoholicsdont...stayonthewagon

http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...nkSafelyAgain/


Other links

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya...newpage15.html

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/17770.html

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/6/prweb130243.htm

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/15000.html

http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040409-02.htm

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya.../newpage4.html

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb144035.htm

http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040726-01.htm

http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/16150.html

http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya.../newpage0.html

> There is
> no reason why anybody who is prepared to identify and address these
> issues from the past cannot make a real and full recovery and drink
> safely and normally again, if and when they so wish. We know, and we
> do.
Hi Alcocure
Could you please enlighten me if, in America, an alcoholic following your
advice and tries to drink 'under control' or 'moderately' and then goes
through yet another cycle of binging and drinking, if they can sue your
company for
damages?
I will see it in a very bad light if you do not answer this question in at
least as much detail as what you are using to sell your questionable
product.
Mias

"Alcocure" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:39516dcd.0410041024.acc68f3@posting.google.co m...
> If you were to try putting the question "can alcoholics recover and
> drink normally again?" to members of your family, friends and
> neighbours, they would probably come up by way of response with the
> tired old clichés from Alcoholics Anonymous like "once an alcoholic,
> always an alcoholic" or "just one drink sets up the compulsion".
>
> But if you try keying in the question "can alcoholics recover and
> drink normally again" on one of the main Internet search engines like
> Google, MSN, Yahoo, Lycos or AskJeeves, you will come up with a very
> different answer.
>
> The top result listed on all the major search engines will link you
> through to one of the websites run by Murdoch and Lilian MacDonald,
> two former alcoholics who have recovered from alcoholism so completely
> that they are now able to take a drink quite normally and safely
> again, if and when they so wish.
>
> Murdoch (58) and Lilian (60), a married couple from Ayrshire in
> Scotland, have set up their websites to tell their story to the world.
> Because until now they believe that alcoholics have had a raw deal, as
> the quasi-monopoly enjoyed by Alcoholics Anonymous has effectively
> denied them any real choice about their own treatment.
>
> "We are not against anybody going to AA if that's what they want,"
> says Lilian. "But we say that lifelong sobriety is not recovery from
> alcoholism, as AA prescribes. That is only treating the symptom rather
> than the underlying cause, and as such is merely a damage-limitation
> exercise."
>
> "Alcoholism is not a disease, as AA and other 12-Step programmes
> maintain," argues Murdoch. "Alcoholism, like other so-called
> addictions, is a behaviour problem stemming from childhood. There is
> no reason why anybody who is prepared to identify and address these
> issues from the past cannot make a real and full recovery and drink
> safely and normally again, if and when they so wish. We know, and we
> do.
>
> "Nobody is incapable of changing their behaviour. And that is one of
> the fundamental differences between Alcoholics Anonymous and us. AA
> disempowers people - the first of the Twelve Steps says: "We admitted
> we were powerless over alcohol" - but we are fighting to give them
> that power back."
>
> Ten years ago the couple had hit rock bottom, sleeping rough for two
> weeks on the streets of Cambridge, where a quarter of a century
> previously as an undergraduate Murdoch had received an honours degree
> in English Literature. They had moved there from Ayr with the idea of
> Murdoch doing research for a doctorate (PhD), but reverted to their
> old habits, started binge drinking, and were thrown out of their
> lodgings.
>
> After a fortnight, and when they were just about at the end of their
> tether, two nurses on their way home after a Saturday night out took
> pity on Lilian and Murdoch, bought them a cup of tea and found them a
> place in a homeless hostel.
>
> The couple spent the next twelve months there getting to the roots of
> their alcoholism. They tried AA one last time, before concluding that
> it was a quasi-religious cult whose ideas on alcoholism were
> inadequate and outdated.
>
> Instead, by reading psychology, they decided that the causes of their
> alcoholic behaviour lay in problems experienced during childhood. And
> that once these problems were realised and addressed, there was no
> longer any need for escape through alcoholism, and they could even
> drink normally like other people again.
>
> Ten years after selling newspapers from a stand in Market Square,
> Cambridge, so that he and Lilian could get back on their feet
> financially, Murdoch now writes his own regular column in the local
> weekly paper and also runs his own public relations consultancy.
>
> And Lilian is so keen to pass on the benefits of their experience to
> others who still have problems with alcohol, that the couple are
> building a website www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com to spread
> their message of hope.
>
> They also have a community group website at
> http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain which includes a
> chat room and message board where members can exchange thoughts, ideas
> and experiences.
>
> Lilian and Murdoch have completed the first draft of a book about
> their experiences, and a London literary agent is currently looking
> for a suitable publisher.
>
> Lilian and Murdoch MacDonald's web links:
>
> Main website:
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelyagain.com
>
> Community websites
>
> http://groups.msn.com/Alcoholicsdont...stayonthewagon
>
> http://groups.msn.com/AlcoholicsCanDrinkSafelyAgain
>
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...nkSafelyAgain/
>
>
> Other links
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya...newpage15.html
>
> http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/17770.html
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/6/prweb130243.htm
>
> http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/15000.html
>
> http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040409-02.htm
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya.../newpage4.html
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb144035.htm
>
> http://www.pr-scotland.com/releases/040726-01.htm
>
> http://www.pressbox.co.uk/Detailed/16150.html
>
> http://www.alcoholicscandrinksafelya.../newpage0.html

"Mias" <emiasno@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
news:cjs58l$qii$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > There is
> > no reason why anybody who is prepared to identify and address
these
> > issues from the past cannot make a real and full recovery and
drink
> > safely and normally again, if and when they so wish. We know, and
we
> > do.

> Hi Alcocure
> Could you please enlighten me if, in America, an alcoholic following
your
> advice and tries to drink 'under control' or 'moderately' and then
goes
> through yet another cycle of binging and drinking, if they can sue
your
> company for
> damages?
> I will see it in a very bad light if you do not answer this question
in at
> least as much detail as what you are using to sell your questionable
> product.
> Mias

Dear Mias,

If you are letting Alcocure's posts disturb your peace of mind do you
think it likely that this person cares enough to want to do anything
that could enable peace to be restored it ?

<g>

With such posts, maybe the Serenity Prayer could prove useful :^)

ATB

JB

> "Alcocure" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:39516dcd.0410041024.acc68f3@posting.google.co m...

Perhaps you're just trying to start your own quasi-cult, lol

Anyway, if childhood is the cause of my alcoholism, why isn't my brother an
alcoholic?

--
J



Alcocure wrote:
> If you were to try putting the question "can alcoholics recover and
> drink normally again?" to members of your family, friends and
> neighbours, they would probably come up by way of response with the
> tired old clichés from Alcoholics Anonymous like "once an alcoholic,
> always an alcoholic" or "just one drink sets up the compulsion".
>
> But if you try keying in the question "can alcoholics recover and
> drink normally again" on one of the main Internet search engines like
> Google, MSN, Yahoo, Lycos or AskJeeves, you will come up with a very
> different answer.

JB,

watch and learn....

Bobby L


"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:cjs6m3$6m8$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Mias" <emiasno@spamnetactive.co.za> wrote in message
> news:cjs58l$qii$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> > > There is
> > > no reason why anybody who is prepared to identify and address
> these
> > > issues from the past cannot make a real and full recovery and
> drink
> > > safely and normally again, if and when they so wish. We know, and
> we
> > > do.
>
> > Hi Alcocure
> > Could you please enlighten me if, in America, an alcoholic following
> your
> > advice and tries to drink 'under control' or 'moderately' and then
> goes
> > through yet another cycle of binging and drinking, if they can sue
> your
> > company for
> > damages?
> > I will see it in a very bad light if you do not answer this question
> in at
> > least as much detail as what you are using to sell your questionable
> > product.
> > Mias
>
> Dear Mias,
>
> If you are letting Alcocure's posts disturb your peace of mind do you
> think it likely that this person cares enough to want to do anything
> that could enable peace to be restored it ?
>
> <g>
>
> With such posts, maybe the Serenity Prayer could prove useful :^)
>
> ATB
>
> JB
>
> > "Alcocure" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:39516dcd.0410041024.acc68f3@posting.google.co m...
>
>
>

"Bobby L" <BobbyL2000spam@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%nJ8d.149986$Np2.50815@bignews4.bellsouth.net ...
> JB,
>
> watch and learn....
>
> Bobby L

<g> Have you again been taking my inventory ?

JB :^)

"Alcocure" <alcocure@aol.com> wrote in message
news:39516dcd.0410041024.acc68f3@posting.google.co m...

> The top result listed on all the major search engines will link you
> through to one of the websites run by Murdoch and Lilian MacDonald,
> two former alcoholics who have recovered from alcoholism so completely
> that they are now able to take a drink quite normally and safely
> again, if and when they so wish.

You're less than enlightening, spammer.

Alcocure wrote:

> If you were to try putting the question "can alcoholics recover and
> drink normally again?" to members of your family, friends and
> neighbours, they would probably come up by way of response with the
> tired old clichés from Alcoholics Anonymous like "once an alcoholic,
> always an alcoholic" or "just one drink sets up the compulsion".
>

Anyone who can return to drinking safely is by definition not an
alcoholic. Why do so many heavy drinkers insist on labeling themselves
as alcoholics? Do they get extra food stamps or something?

This sort of nonsense is only posted by two categories of people. Non
alcoholics and sick alcoholics. Neither has a clue about alcoholism or
the recovery from it.

SR

>Subject: Re: Can alcoholics recover and drink normally again?
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feed2.newsrea der.com!news
reader.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.n
et!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.c om!nntp.giganews.com!new
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>.ntli.net!ntli.net!newspeer1-win.ntli.net!newsfe1-gui.ntli.net.POSTED!53a
b2750!not-for-mail
>From: Sanity Returns peace@last.com
>User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7 (Windows/20040616)
>X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
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>Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
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>Message-ID: <TgE9d.904$wx3.750@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>
>Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:12:03 GMT
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.165.33
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>X-Trace: newsfe1-gui.ntli.net 1097273523 62.255.165.33 (Fri, 08 Oct 2004
>23:12:03 BST)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:12:03 BST
>Organization: ntlworld News Service
>
>
>
>Alcocure wrote:
>
>> If you were to try putting the question "can alcoholics recover and
>> drink normally again?" to members of your family, friends and
>> neighbours, they would probably come up by way of response with the
>> tired old clichés from Alcoholics Anonymous like "once an alcoholic,
>> always an alcoholic" or "just one drink sets up the compulsion".
>>
>
>Anyone who can return to drinking safely is by definition not an
>alcoholic. Why do so many heavy drinkers insist on labeling themselves
>as alcoholics? Do they get extra food stamps or something?
>
>This sort of nonsense is only posted by two categories of people. Non
>alcoholics and sick alcoholics. Neither has a clue about alcoholism or
>the recovery from it.
>
>SR
>
>
>
>
>
>

I happen to agree with you. Some people are not genetically pre-disposed but
become psychologically, then physically addicted from too much use. After some
time and introspect and a resolve to limit behaviors, some people can drink
reasonably. And there are people who drink everyday of their lives but are not
alcoholics. I think a real alcoholic is one who is genetically cursed and that
is a person with no ability to stop or limit his drinking once he starts.
People are way to quick to label themselves and others and to discredit their
own strength and ability to control their own behavior.

Soulwhisper