Virtualoso wrote:

> But then, your post was entitled "alternatives to non-12-step
> treatment".

Ahh yes, a lame grammatical error flame (especially lame since you know
the author's first language isn't english). Typical from someone who
uses the kiddie underwear section of a retail store's catalog as his
playboy rag. Not to mention someone who also comes here factually unarmed.

> Regarding alcoholism, probably the main one is then AA.

Possibly a correct statement since AA is the only entity out there
claiming there is even such a thing as "treatment" for alcohol
dependency (admittedly the pedestrian term 'alcoholism' is widely
accepted by the general public in lieu of the proper diagnostic term
'alcohol dependency' as used by the professionals).

> Especially since none of the non-12-step treatments work to any
> extent.

And what non step "treatments" would that be? I've never once heard
those in non step refer to their literature or program as
"treatment". Assiting someone in convincing themself that he or she has
the facets to permanently end a dependence upon something is not
treatment. Not in a medical sense anyway. Obviously very profitable to
claim such, but not very ethical, and this is widely understood among
those who have factual knowledge of non step programs (something you
seem to be lacking).

-Markus

["Followup-To:" nach alt.recovery.from-12-steps gesetzt.]
On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 08:26:39 -0400, Markus wrote:
> Virtualoso wrote:
>
>> But then, your post was entitled "alternatives to non-12-step
>> treatment".
>
> Ahh yes, a lame grammatical error flame (especially lame since you know
> the author's first language isn't english). Typical from someone who
> uses the kiddie underwear section of a retail store's catalog as his
> playboy rag. Not to mention someone who also comes here factually unarmed.

Thank you Markus.

I don't know if you you read the 12 step free list. There was a
posting giving me something to think about.

The poster wrote that if someone provides links to alternatives, it
would be better not to compare these alternatives to AA.

Because, good reason I think, in that case you give AA credits,
power it not deserves.

This posting at the 12sf list was short before Virtual one came with
the argument that AA ist the largest, best, and so on organization
for the treatment of people with substance abuse problems.

I didn't reply to his posting by now, because next time I'll
post the links about the self-helping groups, I want avoid the
mentioning of AA at all. Should have been a surprise.

So many words for nothing much worth mentioning.
Sorry for my (grammatical) mistakes in past and maybe now. I'm still
learning.

I also feel sorry for all who did and do not make any mistakes.
The only way to stop making any mistake in life is stop living.

Detlef