Hey people,

I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of posts,
and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not successful.
I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer I'm
getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have to do
this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping aloof
is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on myself;
perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence in
the HP being on my side.

The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings are
not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want an
initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
listening.

My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house. Initially
I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't know
if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies THAT
phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka every
day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am obsessing
about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip to
the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit? is
the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he think? I
mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that this
conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a productive
and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.

Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to give.
I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma; I'm
a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home. Can I
drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an open
book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open mind.

Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.

Thank you in advance ~
Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by
> lots of posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
> successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the
> answer I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction.
> I have to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is
> keeping aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
> myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong
> confidence in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and
> that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA
> meetings are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP
> ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really
> just want an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing
> body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little
> house. Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep.
> I don't know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial
> fantasies THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of
> vodka every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
> obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate
> my trip to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to
> quit? is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does
> he think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would
> suspect that this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain
> a productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing
> scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're
> willing to give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this
> dilemma; I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at
> home. Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm
> an open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with
> an open mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best
> wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~

Making the time to check out http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml
also up to the end of chapter three @
http://silkworth.net/bb/doctorsopinion.html may help you determine
the appropriate path for you.

By the way, I don't recall ever hearing a committed "believer" claim
their God will do for them what they should do for themselves! I'm
not familiar with Moderation Managements practices, but certainly
believe the actions implicit in the simple AA program @
http://anonpress.org/bb/Page_59.htm leave no loophole for faith to
fail.

Hope that helps,

Bob

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of
posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer
I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have
to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping
aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence
in
> the HP being on my side.

I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has never
involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if that
offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I got
myself in this mess, I must get myself out."

>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings
are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want
an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.

Ditto.

>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house.
Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't
know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies
THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka
every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip
to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit?
is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he
think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that
this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a
productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.

My MO was a full 75cl bottle of cheap (but full strength) vodka per day -
sometimes more. I drank alone and in secret (or so I thought!) What you say
about the liquor store is very true - what were the staff there thinking
when I turned up every morning at 8am for a bottle of spirits???

>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to
give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma;
I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home.
Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an
open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open
mind.

My advice, for what it's worth:
1. Speak with somebody. It's a big weight lifted when you can admit this
problem. It may be the hardest thing you ever do, but it is very important.
Choose somebody close to you, somebody who respects you enough to want to
see you get well.

2. You WILL NOT be able to do this alone. You may sit at home for a couple
of dry days, feel like hell, then when it's over you will be back in the
store buying that bottle and wondering what all the fuss was about. I
guarantee it - alcoholism is a part of you that you have no control over so
please don't think you can trust yourself because you can't. Remember - it
will be with you for the rest of your life, even if you never drink again. I
don't know your personal circumstances but you do need somebody to help get
you through this - that's why I have a lot of respect for AA even though I
have never used it. AA provides contact with other people who know exactly
what you are doing and why - if you have nobody close enough to you to get
you through, I would suggest AA. I was fortunate in having a close family to
get me through - I put them through all sorts of hell, but without them I
would now be dead.

3. If you really are an alcoholic - and only you can know this for sure -
then no, you can never drink alcohol again so forget "drinking socially"
right now. It's not as bad as it sounds, believe me. Once the withdrawal and
craving is over - life is really pretty good without alcohol (I never
thought I would say that)! How do you know if you are an alcoholic? My take
on this is if your thoughts are constantly centred around the next drink, if
you sub-consciously plan your life around having a drink then you are
alcoholic. You have to be honest with yourself here, and if you are and you
discover that alcohol is the dominant force in your life, then you must stop
drinking now, however hard that may be.

4. If you have read this far and you (a) decide you are alcoholic and (b)
are prepared to quit, then get ready for some very unpleasant experiences.
My withdrawals (five of them) could, and should, have killed me - hopefully
yours will be less severe, as my drinking was off the scale while I would
describe yours as excessive. Prepare yourself by reading up on the internet
or better still, buy and read the book Beyond the Influence - here's a link
but you can find it most places online:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...e&s=books&st=*

If you have any more questions, feel free to email me. Use the following
address, but remove the word "private"
embeeprivate@clara.net

Good luck and best wishes


>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey
>
>

MB- First you say..

> I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has never
> involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if
> that
> offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I got
> myself in this mess, I must get myself out."

and then you go on to say,

> 1. Speak with somebody. It's a big weight lifted when you can admit this
> problem. It may be the hardest thing you ever do, but it is very
> important.
> Choose somebody close to you, somebody who respects you enough to want to
> see you get well.
>
> 2. You WILL NOT be able to do this alone.

I'm confused.

-Steve

Excellent post, MB. I hope you're listening Vannie.

>I drank alone and in secret (or so I thought!) What you say
> about the liquor store is very true - what were the staff there thinking
> when I turned up every morning at 8am for a bottle of spirits???

So true, so true. I 'faced' this problem by rotating the stores I'd visit
in the morning. That way, the clerk at each only saw me every few days.
And after a cup or two in the parking lot, who gives a shit what those
dumb-ass clerks think anyway?


>- alcoholism is a part of you that you have no control over...

In A.A., that admission is Step One. Nobody stops drinking for long without
it.


> 3. If you really are an alcoholic - and only you can know this for sure -
> then no, you can never drink alcohol again so forget "drinking socially"
> right now. It's not as bad as it sounds, believe me. Once the withdrawal
> and
> craving is over - life is really pretty good without alcohol (I never
> thought I would say that)!

I didn't believe it either when anyone promised life would be pretty good
without drinking, but it's actually true. Right now your mind is telling
you otherwise, but as you know, your mind is impaired right now -you're
looking at the world from under a big rock, and even when you aren't buzzed
you aren't anywhere near detoxed.

Another fringe benefit of getting past it: LOT'S of extra money in your
pocket!

-Fred

vanegirl@aol.complicated (Vaney) wrote in message news:<20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com>...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house. Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit? is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma; I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home. Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey


Sounds like ole Lord Wimsey was a bit of an obsessive too, wouldn't
you say? Welcome. Since they come in different sizes, how big's that
bottle of wine Vaney? I used to like the heavier one.

Cheggs
Who can still mentally do the price/volume/strength equation most
effectively.

Sorry to confuse you! On a spiritual/emotional/mental level, I did not want
to look outside of myself for a cause or solution to my problems. However,
on a tangible, physical level then I do believe that sharing what you are
going through with another human being is important.

In my experience, having somebody who's prepared to sit with you during the
pain of withdrawal, clean up after the vomiting, make lots of soft drinks
when your hands are too shaky and keep you from going to the store for
alcohol is crucial to recovery.

The original poster suggested they were going to try to dry out at home
alone - I do not believe that would be a good idea. In my experience, a
person withdrawing from alcohol needs some level of supervision. The OP also
seemed to be reluctant to share their problem with another person - I
believe sharing actually helps the alcoholic confront their problems.

For me, no matter how many people I share my problem with, I still believe
that "I got myself in this mess, I must get myself out." I accept that for
many the concept of a HP is very helpful in their recovery and I have no
problem with that. It just wasn't going to work for me.

Hope that explains things a little more clearly.

Regards





"[[]]" <[[]]@[[]].com> wrote in message
news:HxA4d.84020$JC5.43406@fe14.usenetserver.com.. .
> MB- First you say..
>
> > I can't comment on the HP aspect as my experience of alcoholism has
never
> > involved looking outside of myself for the cause or the cure. Sorry if
> > that
> > offends anyone, but when I was quitting the bottle I believed that "I
got
> > myself in this mess, I must get myself out."
>
> and then you go on to say,
>
> > 1. Speak with somebody. It's a big weight lifted when you can admit this
> > problem. It may be the hardest thing you ever do, but it is very
> > important.
> > Choose somebody close to you, somebody who respects you enough to want
to
> > see you get well.
> >
> > 2. You WILL NOT be able to do this alone.
>
> I'm confused.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>

>
> Another fringe benefit of getting past it: LOT'S of extra money in your
> pocket!
>
Ahhhhhh how I wish that was true!! Unfortunately, now that I have the
ability to enjoy life once again I actually find I have LESS money -
daytrips with the wife, shopping with the wife, eating regular meals,
visiting restaurants, new hobbies and interests, caring about having decent
clothes and looking my best etc etc. It's much more expensive than a £10
bottle of vodka each day! But I would NOT want to go back into that
particular saving scheme again :-)

Cheggers wrote:


>Since they come in different sizes, how big's that
>bottle of wine Vaney? I used to like the heavier one.

Well, in the name of economy I usually buy the 1.5 liter Almaden Chardonnay,
but I only drink half of it. (On occasion I've been known to add an extra
glass). I haven't bought the giant jug for ages. The 5-liter box is really
the best deal, but it's like an unlimited keg, so I avoid it. My usual is 4
glasses from 6:00 or so until 11:00, all filled with ice (I use a tumbler,
nothing so elegant as an actual wine glass).

Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

MB said:

>The original poster suggested they were going to try to dry out at home
>alone - I do not believe that would be a good idea. In my experience, a
>person withdrawing from alcohol needs some level of supervision. The OP also
>seemed to be reluctant to share their problem with another person - I
>believe sharing actually helps the alcoholic confront their problems.

Actually, I HAVE shared my anxieties with one other person - an old, old school
friend with whom I reconnected at a class reunion. I found out she hasn't had
a drink in 17 years, did the AA thing. This piqued my interest, and we had
some good conversations, but she was only able to offer thoughts like, "you'll
quit when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired," and "quitting is
simple but it's not easy" It's nice to know there's someone who can relate,
but I don't feel she is going to be much real *help*, if you know what I mean.
She is also someone who has *major* horrific issues going back to her early
childhood, and she is just naturally more focussed on fixing herself than in
expending much energy on guiding a person whom she hasn't seen in 15 or so
years (needy though I may be!!)

Thanks for your thoughts!
Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey