>I believe that I have read everything that Dorothy Sayers ever
>published. Apart from the books, I have Wimsey stories on audiotapes and
>DVDs. Lord Peter was the example that a man could be witty, urbane,
>tasteful, thoughtful and decent without being gay. I consider him to be the
>first "metrosexual."
> Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time trying to emulate his appreciation
>of wines. Of course later in my life, I also emulated his earlier
>shell-shock. In my case, though, it wasn't a war but only a woman.
> Anyway, please give some thought to passing on the drinking. Some of us
>have done so and are glad of it.
> Dan
>

My yearly (or so) re-readings of the Wimsey books constitutes one of the great
pleasures of my life. Would that you could see my tattered copies,
well-thumbed and lovingly preserved! Edward Petherbridge portrayed him better
than anyone heretofore (IMHO) and Harriet, too, was all that I could have
wished in casting. Sayers' scholarship and writing opened a whole world to me,
that of quality and integrity. Fortunately, with this pre-requisite, I am able
to recognise new quality when I see it, but it will never take the place of the
first good stuff I ever read.

Have you read The Mind of the Maker? It has been some years since I have done,
but a book-journal entry I made when I read it testifies to the excellence of
it (Christianity notwithstanding - Sayers was one of those wonderful militant
Xtians, along with C S Lewis, but I never quite needed *that*). I have it on
my bookshelf - I think I will get it out again.

I, too, can relate to Lord Peter's shellshock. I never quite quivered in the
darkness, or couldn't decide whether or not to turn on the light, but I have
hidden from from demons of my own, safe and secure behind my tumbler of wine
and ice.

I think I will try to stop for one day. Just to see how good or bad it is or
isn't. And then I might try one more. I will let you know.

Thanks again, just for being here in space. You're a bigger comfort than you
know.

(And *that* should bring the trolls out in force...those idiots without a
village...)

Vaney
to email, simplify...

"...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
Lord Peter Wimsey

vanegirl@aol.complicated (Vaney) wrote in message news:<20040927200418.13228.00001166@mb-m12.aol.com>...

> Y'know, I have to say I *have* tried. And succeeded, too, if I stalled and
> puttered long enough that the liquor store would be closed (just recently they
> opened one here in PA that stays open until TEN at night and also opens on
> Sunday <groan>). But the next day I would repair the error of my ways.

Yep. Done that one, too. But then I discovered that the next county
sells 24/6, so I was reduced to one potential night of miserable
sobriety. I posted here recently I'd discovered a stat that about 50%
of booze revenue comes from alcohol abusers. If the stores opened for
just three hours daily, I'd wager revenues would barely falter.
Anyway...

> I am not a small person, 5'6" and 135 lbs - just lost 10 pounds!!!! - and I get
> cosily toasted on my bottle. I have always been able to drink quite a lot and
> keep conversant and mobile, (you should have seen me in my youth!) and this
> awful little habit is just my way of getting ready for bed.

Not to belabor my earlier point, but your blood alcohol levels are not
likely to be particularly high at any given point of the evening in
view of all you say.

Since the conventional wisdom on addiction makes tolerance one of its
central tenets, your (admittedly) regular but low-level and apparently
reasonably fixed intake are indications that any problem you decide
you have puts you in a better position than many others. Better a wart
than a cancer.

> One time I was on
> some medication for an infection, and it must act like Antabuse, one goes
> *immediately* to Barf City if you take even one drink, they told me. So I was
> alcohol-free for something like 16 days, and I was amazed at how (relatively)
> easy it was to abstain when faced with dire illness as an alternative.

Funny you should mention this, Vaney. I've had two nasty infections in
probably six years.

The first one I drank through. Booze plus the particular antibiotic I
was prescribed did not a trip to spewsville necessitate, but alcohol
cut the antibiotic's effectiveness. I chose, in effect, to lengthen
the treatment time and hence prolong the pain by continuing to drink
during that time.

The second one I was abstinent before, during and after. And, for the
record, I was on Antabuse at the time. The episode was a revelation to
me; I thought that Antabuse *was* an antibiotic which just had that
serendipitous vomitorium side effect. Evidently not.

But you can stop for sixteen days when the alternative is suffering.
Well, the big book says something about people like you and JB I hope
will fill you in on the details, because she's good with references.
It kinda fits/defines your 'category' quite well.

Didn't
> last, though. So there *must* be a problem. And I can't say it doesn't affect
> my life, either. I find myself settling down with a good book and slurp away
> the evening, way too often. Every night. I mean, the cats get fed and the
> place stays clean, but the ironing (grrrrrrr) is piling up and I haven't paid
> attention to any of my hobbies in a long, long time.
>
> I know my problem must seem like small beans to some of you guys - I've lurked
> long enough to get as much of your stories as you've posted here - but it's
> still a pretty big problem for me. I've read that when you obsess, it's a
> "Sign". Well, I don't obsess about drinking - I can figure out all my little
> details pretty much on auto-pilot - but I'm starting to obsess about
> *quitting*, and the more I think about it, the longer I put it off. "I'll quit
> tomorrow" and then tomorrow is just such a pisser of a day that I really want
> the relaxation, etc, etc, etc. It's as though my mind knows the ol' relaxer is
> on its way out and arranges things just to mess up my plans.

Vaney, if you think it's a problem, it's a problem. And any medic in
the country would agree that you're a bit over the couple of drinks a
day that are supposed to be beneficial (to the health of those who do
not have drink problems, naturally).

However, since your tangible net loss so far is an unhappiness with
your habit and a pile of crumpled ironing, I vote that you go with
Robert McGregor's suggestion and look into moderation management.

That would entail a supported period of re-adjustment (thirty days off
the booze if memory serves) and then drinking under rules that might
leave you content enough to be no longer obsessed with quitting.

And if you still want to quit, then do it. You'll still get plenty of
support around here whether you drink a bottle of wine a night or a
bottle of scotch. You might not have as many war stories to tell but
I'd be willing to guess that the quitting process is much the same at
its roots for pack-a-day smokers as it is two pack-a-day smokers. And,
hell - more power to ya for quitting while you're ahead. More or less,
anyway!

Hey - any chance of a discount on a nice Amish-built bedframe from
that drink-starved community of yours?

All good wishes and a little friendly mischief,

Cheggs.
Who didn't preview this post because its late and he's cranky and he
apologizes.

: Funny you should mention this, Vaney. I've had two nasty
infections in
: probably six years.
:

i use to BELIEVE that all the booze i drank, KILLED the germs i came
into contact with!
(ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the alcoholic mind and its rationalization!)





: The first one I drank through. Booze plus the particular
antibiotic I
: was prescribed did not a trip to spewsville necessitate, but
alcohol
: cut the antibiotic's effectiveness. I chose, in effect, to
lengthen
: the treatment time and hence prolong the pain by continuing to
drink
: during that time.
:
: The second one I was abstinent before, during and after. And, for
the
: record, I was on Antabuse at the time. The episode was a
revelation to
: me; I thought that Antabuse *was* an antibiotic which just had
that
: serendipitous vomitorium side effect. Evidently not.
:
: But you can stop for sixteen days when the alternative is
suffering.
: Well, the big book says something about people like you and JB I
hope
: will fill you in on the details, because she's good with
references.
: It kinda fits/defines your 'category' quite well.
:
: Didn't
: > last, though. So there *must* be a problem. And I can't say it
doesn't affect
: > my life, either. I find myself settling down with a good book
and slurp away
: > the evening, way too often. Every night. I mean, the cats get
fed and the
: > place stays clean, but the ironing (grrrrrrr) is piling up and I
haven't paid
: > attention to any of my hobbies in a long, long time.
: >
: > I know my problem must seem like small beans to some of you
guys - I've lurked
: > long enough to get as much of your stories as you've posted
here - but it's
: > still a pretty big problem for me. I've read that when you
obsess, it's a
: > "Sign". Well, I don't obsess about drinking - I can figure out
all my little
: > details pretty much on auto-pilot - but I'm starting to obsess
about
: > *quitting*, and the more I think about it, the longer I put it
off. "I'll quit
: > tomorrow" and then tomorrow is just such a pisser of a day that
I really want
: > the relaxation, etc, etc, etc. It's as though my mind knows the
ol' relaxer is
: > on its way out and arranges things just to mess up my plans.
:
: Vaney, if you think it's a problem, it's a problem. And any medic
in
: the country would agree that you're a bit over the couple of
drinks a
: day that are supposed to be beneficial (to the health of those who
do
: not have drink problems, naturally).
:
: However, since your tangible net loss so far is an unhappiness
with
: your habit and a pile of crumpled ironing, I vote that you go with
: Robert McGregor's suggestion and look into moderation management.
:
: That would entail a supported period of re-adjustment (thirty days
off
: the booze if memory serves) and then drinking under rules that
might
: leave you content enough to be no longer obsessed with quitting.
:
: And if you still want to quit, then do it. You'll still get plenty
of
: support around here whether you drink a bottle of wine a night or
a
: bottle of scotch. You might not have as many war stories to tell
but
: I'd be willing to guess that the quitting process is much the same
at
: its roots for pack-a-day smokers as it is two pack-a-day smokers.
And,
: hell - more power to ya for quitting while you're ahead. More or
less,
: anyway!
:
: Hey - any chance of a discount on a nice Amish-built bedframe from
: that drink-starved community of yours?
:
: All good wishes and a little friendly mischief,
:
: Cheggs.
: Who didn't preview this post because its late and he's cranky and
he
: apologizes.

" rosie readandpost" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Y7d6d.66169$6h7.2116@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...
> : Funny you should mention this, Vaney. I've had two nasty
> infections in
> : probably six years.
> :
>
> i use to BELIEVE that all the booze i drank, KILLED the germs i came
> into contact with!
> (ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the alcoholic mind and its rationalization!)
>

I kinda would still believe it, Rosie. Not sure I'd ever eat an oyster
sober. Just to be on the safe side... ;-) (and only about half
joking, I'm embarrassed to admit).

Cheggs

: I kinda would still believe it, Rosie. Not sure I'd ever eat an
oyster
: sober. Just to be on the safe side... ;-) (and only about half
: joking, I'm embarrassed to admit).
:
: Cheggs

Hi Vaney
Has drinking brought you happiness? If not - give AA a chance for 5% of the
time that you had given booze thus far. I can almost gaurantee you that
should you discover that you might be an alcoholic in AA you will also
discover happiness, that does not go away in the morning.
Try something different.

If you do the same as you have always done you will get the same results you
always had.
If you want what winners have you must do what winners do. (Look for a
winner somewhere and follow him/her)

Kind regards
Mias

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040922215828.21613.00001103@mb-m10.aol.com...
> Hey people,
>
> I've been lurking here quite some time. I've been encouraged by lots of
> posts,
> and my intention is strong (to quit drinking) but so far I'm not
> successful.
> I've had meeting after meeting after meeting with my HP, but the answer
> I'm
> getting is that there is no help forthcoming from that direction. I have
> to do
> this all alone, and that scares the shit out of me. Why my HP is keeping
> aloof
> is quite beyond me, except that I have always had to depend only on
> myself;
> perhaps the lack of safety-net in my life precludes any strong confidence
> in
> the HP being on my side.
>
> The strange thing is that I am *very* sure that I have a HP, and that I am
> being observed by Him/Her, but my appeal for real help is met with
> indifference. I must say here that (at least in my community) AA meetings
> are
> not an option. There are privacy/secrecy issues, and here the HP ID is
> primarily Christian, of which group I am not a member. I really just want
> an
> initial boost, a few days of respite, or a sign that some f***ing body is
> listening.
>
> My MO is one bottle of wine every evening, alone in my little house.
> Initially
> I was a Jack Daniel's fan, and used in order to be able to sleep. I don't
> know
> if I'm an alcoholic or just a "problem drinker" (ah, what denial fantasies
> THAT
> phrase conjures up!). When I read about people drinking a fifth of vodka
> every
> day, I allow myself to think that I'm not so bad, y'know? But I am
> obsessing
> about this drinking. I am pissed off every morning, and I debate my trip
> to
> the liquor store every day - yes or no? which date should I pick to quit?
> is
> the same clerk there that checked me out yesterday, and what does he
> think? I
> mean, this is totally out of hand. No one who knows me would suspect that
> this
> conflict is breaking me up - I have been quite careful to maintain a
> productive
> and well-managed lifestyle - no major blips, no embarrassing scenes.
>
> Anyway, that's my story and I'll appreciate any advice you're willing to
> give.
> I have never until today actually "spoken" with anyone about this dilemma;
> I'm
> a total newbie. I know that I need to quit drinking alone and at home.
> Can I
> drink socially? Will rules like that work? What should I do? I'm an
> open
> book here - all help will be taken gratefully and considered with an open
> mind.
>
> Anyway, to all you unknown and well-known posters, my various best wishes,
> congratulations, questions and requests for counsel.
>
> Thank you in advance ~
> Vaney
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no object..."
> Lord Peter Wimsey
>
>

> If you do the same as you have always done you will get the same results
> you
> always had.

Mias- Funny, this simply idea took me 'almost forever' to get.
....rats in a maze learn faster.

-Steve

> If you do the same as you have always done you will get the same results
> you always had.

In my relapse prevention program, while I was a guest of the county, the
other guests were less literate; so the counsellor just said: "Do what you
did and you'll get what you got."

Hey,
I am here, experiencing the same sh@t as you.
I think I can go it alone. I don't know.
So far, as a Christian, I have not been miraculously released by my
habits.

But I do think that God frequently will challenge us to rise up and
beyond our problem to build spiritual strength.

I can do this, I can find the power to control it. So I say.

I am watching my mother die from the same thing, only with cigarettes.
Don't bother saying it isn't the same. it is.
Any time you are telling someone "I will quit, honest!" But inside
thinking "No, not really", that is the big signal. You are F-ed up.

Totally F-ed up? Well, I still believe in myself. I still think I can
get away from this. I actually said and believed that I can and will
get this out of my soul, I can identify the pattern of thought that
causes addiction and diffuse it.

Well, I am off to finish my beer. I would say good luck, but we all
know that is BS, God's help then. We need it. To stabilize ourselves
so we can be some good to someone else.

"Vaney" <vanegirl@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20040927202432.13228.00001167@mb-m12.aol.com...
> <Not bothering to quote ridiculous nasty responses>
>
> I am constantly amazed by the number of complete idiots the world
contains.
> Not being one (I am only a *partial* idiot, and then only once in a
while) I am
> just sorry that they can 1) read well enough to read this group and 2)
pull
> themselves up out of their sludge long enough to post here. My
goodness.
>
> Vaney
> who utters a long stream of horrible invective, full of sailor-quality
swear
> words, but only in the privacy of her house and in the presence of two
> bewildered cats (who head under the bed).
> to email, simplify...
>
> "...details delight me, ramifications enchant me, distance no
object..."
> Lord Peter
Wimsey

I said no nasty responses, butt if you insist. You can take your
goddamned tory Lord and shove him up your ass.

Her old man probably shoved his fist up her ass which is probably what
your goddamned capitalist scum sucking intellectual ass needs.

So as for crying in your beer, fuck tat
what I hope for is a civil war so I could legally kill ass maggots like
you to get the freedom and respect I deserve.

"...Exterminate the christian jew cop government..."
Dem Feckers Esquire