Why addiction cannot be moderate
By Peter Provet, Ph.D.
Published in Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly, July 31, 2000


"Moderation is simply not in the behavioral vocabulary of the addict. In
fact, the principle of moderation represents the antithesis of
addiction. The most common feature of all addictions (drugs, alcohol,
food, gambling, etc.) is an excessive drive toward the addictive object.
The addict can never get enough. Addiction and recovery are all-or-none
phenomena.


The following points strengthen the argument that moderate drinking for
alcohol abusers is inappropriate:


As the biological and genetic underpinnings of addiction are identified,
addictive behavior is increasingly understood as a biologically based
event where the reinforcement of pleasure for some can be an insatiable
drive.


Addiction is now widely recognized to have biological, psychological and
social causality.
Addiction should not simply be regarded as the need for the addictive
substance but rather as a complex process fulfilling, however
temporarily, an individual's need for pleasure and avoidance of pain.
The theory of cross-tolerance posits that if an addict's object of
addiction were to disappear, a replacement soon would be found. Thus,
the abstinence model calls for abstinence to all mood-altering
substances. For example, too many cocaine addicts without histories of
alcohol abuse have successfully quit cocaine and become alcoholics after
thinking they could drink socially.


The argument supporting moderate drinking is based on the premise that
it is possible to accurately and consistently diagnose the degree and
severity of alcohol abuse. Moderate drinking is then seen as an option
for individuals with milder cases of abuse. The problem with this
premise is that substance abuse diagnosis is still at a relatively
primitive level, complicated by the fact that abusers often have
heightened if not sociopathic abilities to convince others of their
perspectives and beliefs.


Because of the ambivalence, confusion and denial that most addicts bring
into early treatment, consistency, certainty and clarity must underlie
all treatment approaches. The moderate use of a substance that has been
immoderately abused contradicts this fundamental position."

http://www.odysseyhouseinc.org/News/adaw0700.html

Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it worked
for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
enough....

I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If one can
moderate, one is not an alcoholic.



"neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:20881-410FBE01-114@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
>
> Why addiction cannot be moderate
> By Peter Provet, Ph.D.
> Published in Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly, July 31, 2000
>
>
> "Moderation is simply not in the behavioral vocabulary of the addict. In
> fact, the principle of moderation represents the antithesis of
> addiction. The most common feature of all addictions (drugs, alcohol,
> food, gambling, etc.) is an excessive drive toward the addictive object.
> The addict can never get enough. Addiction and recovery are all-or-none
> phenomena.
>
>
> The following points strengthen the argument that moderate drinking for
> alcohol abusers is inappropriate:
>
>
> As the biological and genetic underpinnings of addiction are identified,
> addictive behavior is increasingly understood as a biologically based
> event where the reinforcement of pleasure for some can be an insatiable
> drive.
>
>
> Addiction is now widely recognized to have biological, psychological and
> social causality.
> Addiction should not simply be regarded as the need for the addictive
> substance but rather as a complex process fulfilling, however
> temporarily, an individual's need for pleasure and avoidance of pain.
> The theory of cross-tolerance posits that if an addict's object of
> addiction were to disappear, a replacement soon would be found. Thus,
> the abstinence model calls for abstinence to all mood-altering
> substances. For example, too many cocaine addicts without histories of
> alcohol abuse have successfully quit cocaine and become alcoholics after
> thinking they could drink socially.
>
>
> The argument supporting moderate drinking is based on the premise that
> it is possible to accurately and consistently diagnose the degree and
> severity of alcohol abuse. Moderate drinking is then seen as an option
> for individuals with milder cases of abuse. The problem with this
> premise is that substance abuse diagnosis is still at a relatively
> primitive level, complicated by the fact that abusers often have
> heightened if not sociopathic abilities to convince others of their
> perspectives and beliefs.
>
>
> Because of the ambivalence, confusion and denial that most addicts bring
> into early treatment, consistency, certainty and clarity must underlie
> all treatment approaches. The moderate use of a substance that has been
> immoderately abused contradicts this fundamental position."
>
> http://www.odysseyhouseinc.org/News/adaw0700.html
>

Unfortunately this is so true. If you have ever been on the MM list it is
very busy. You will see how many people are working to keep alcohol in their
lives and having problems. Unfortunately today after 4 month sober AGAIN I
drank some wine my wife had in the refrigerator. I would be terrified if I
didn't have a slight euphoric buzz. It does different things to me than the
normal drinker. I have never experienced the euphoria with any other drug,
nor have I ever experiences the fear, terror and humiliation. God I need
help. I saw this coming for days but was afraid to reach out or though I
would get through the thinking.

Gregg

"Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it worked
> for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> enough....
>
> I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If one can
> moderate, one is not an alcoholic.
>
>
>
> "neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:20881-410FBE01-114@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
> >
> > Why addiction cannot be moderate
> > By Peter Provet, Ph.D.
> > Published in Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly, July 31, 2000
> >
> >
> > "Moderation is simply not in the behavioral vocabulary of the addict. In
> > fact, the principle of moderation represents the antithesis of
> > addiction. The most common feature of all addictions (drugs, alcohol,
> > food, gambling, etc.) is an excessive drive toward the addictive object.
> > The addict can never get enough. Addiction and recovery are all-or-none
> > phenomena.
> >
> >
> > The following points strengthen the argument that moderate drinking for
> > alcohol abusers is inappropriate:
> >
> >
> > As the biological and genetic underpinnings of addiction are identified,
> > addictive behavior is increasingly understood as a biologically based
> > event where the reinforcement of pleasure for some can be an insatiable
> > drive.
> >
> >
> > Addiction is now widely recognized to have biological, psychological and
> > social causality.
> > Addiction should not simply be regarded as the need for the addictive
> > substance but rather as a complex process fulfilling, however
> > temporarily, an individual's need for pleasure and avoidance of pain.
> > The theory of cross-tolerance posits that if an addict's object of
> > addiction were to disappear, a replacement soon would be found. Thus,
> > the abstinence model calls for abstinence to all mood-altering
> > substances. For example, too many cocaine addicts without histories of
> > alcohol abuse have successfully quit cocaine and become alcoholics after
> > thinking they could drink socially.
> >
> >
> > The argument supporting moderate drinking is based on the premise that
> > it is possible to accurately and consistently diagnose the degree and
> > severity of alcohol abuse. Moderate drinking is then seen as an option
> > for individuals with milder cases of abuse. The problem with this
> > premise is that substance abuse diagnosis is still at a relatively
> > primitive level, complicated by the fact that abusers often have
> > heightened if not sociopathic abilities to convince others of their
> > perspectives and beliefs.
> >
> >
> > Because of the ambivalence, confusion and denial that most addicts bring
> > into early treatment, consistency, certainty and clarity must underlie
> > all treatment approaches. The moderate use of a substance that has been
> > immoderately abused contradicts this fundamental position."
> >
> > http://www.odysseyhouseinc.org/News/adaw0700.html
> >
>
>

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:ceomgq$1d7$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> > Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it
> worked
> > for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> > enough....
> >
> > I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If
> one can
> > moderate, one is not an alcoholic.
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> Recently, in another forum, I posted the following:
>
> "There may come a time when your friend is willing to hear the news
> that alcoholism is an illness from which people can - and do - recover
>
> Recovery comes about in alcoholics who have learnt to not believe any
> thoughts they have that it is OK for them to drink.
>
> If you have a copy of the BB,take a look at the chapters "The Dr's
> Opinion" and "There is a Solution". In them you will discover the idea
> that when alcoholics drink alcohol their body develops a powerful
> physical craving for more of it and it this craving which forces them
> to keep on drinking. Also, you'll discover the idea that for as long
> as alcoholics drink no alcohol, they'll never trigger their craving
> for
> it and therefore alcohol can no longer harm them.
>
> At a later date, another idea that you might pass onto your friend is
> the idea that people drink because they like the effect alcohol has on
> them. Now, I'm not talking about the hangovers and sickness that often
> come after drinking too much but rather the effect alcohol has long
> before that state is reached. Examples: When I discovered that alcohol
> enabled me to overcome my shyness (ie it gave me confidence), often, I
> would drink in order to acquire that confidence. When I discovered
> that it made me feel accepted by people around whom I wanted to be, I
> drank in order to feel accepted. When I discovered that drinking could
> cause my brain to temporarily shut down, thus enabling me to get
> temporary relief from anything that was causing me to feel stressed to
> the point of needing a break from life, I'd often drink to achieve
> that state of temporary oblivion.
>
> If the ideas that alcoholism is an illness that affects both the mind
> and body and that people drink because they like the effect alcohol
> has on them comes to appeal to your friend and he wants to recover
> from alcoholism, then AA's 12 Step programme is designed to help him
> do just that"
>
> Maybe that post contains info that someone other than me will think
> makes sense and therefore maybe will prove helpful to
> them.
>
> ATB
>
> JB
>
Hey JB,

I agree with all of this. For me, the realization that I had a problem came
when I found that I "needed" that drink for confidence, or deal with a
difficult situation or the worst one: to be the person that I thought I
should be. I believe that for me, alcohol has such a profound effect that I
treat it like a deadly poison. Even a little bit could be fatal to me and
people around me.

It helps to know that I'm not alone and unique. In a perfect world, no one
would have to deal with addiction. Alas, there is no such thing and I must
do the best that I can for as long as I am here.

Thankful that I was able to put it down before I hurt myself or anyone else.

Kirk S.
>
>

"Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it
worked
> for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> enough....
>
> I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If
one can
> moderate, one is not an alcoholic.

Hi Fred,

Recently, in another forum, I posted the following:

"There may come a time when your friend is willing to hear the news
that alcoholism is an illness from which people can - and do - recover

Recovery comes about in alcoholics who have learnt to not believe any
thoughts they have that it is OK for them to drink.

If you have a copy of the BB,take a look at the chapters "The Dr's
Opinion" and "There is a Solution". In them you will discover the idea
that when alcoholics drink alcohol their body develops a powerful
physical craving for more of it and it this craving which forces them
to keep on drinking. Also, you'll discover the idea that for as long
as alcoholics drink no alcohol, they'll never trigger their craving
for
it and therefore alcohol can no longer harm them.

At a later date, another idea that you might pass onto your friend is
the idea that people drink because they like the effect alcohol has on
them. Now, I'm not talking about the hangovers and sickness that often
come after drinking too much but rather the effect alcohol has long
before that state is reached. Examples: When I discovered that alcohol
enabled me to overcome my shyness (ie it gave me confidence), often, I
would drink in order to acquire that confidence. When I discovered
that it made me feel accepted by people around whom I wanted to be, I
drank in order to feel accepted. When I discovered that drinking could
cause my brain to temporarily shut down, thus enabling me to get
temporary relief from anything that was causing me to feel stressed to
the point of needing a break from life, I'd often drink to achieve
that state of temporary oblivion.

If the ideas that alcoholism is an illness that affects both the mind
and body and that people drink because they like the effect alcohol
has on them comes to appeal to your friend and he wants to recover
from alcoholism, then AA's 12 Step programme is designed to help him
do just that"

Maybe that post contains info that someone other than me will think
makes sense and therefore maybe will prove helpful to
them.

ATB

JB

I'm right there with you buddy. I feel really bad that after four months
you suddenly (I assume) grabbed a glass of wine. It snuck up on me slowly,
after practicing m.m. I think that being sober for even just a little while
builds our confidence back again, and we look back at the last binge and
think it was just a silly thing.

"I would be terrified if I didn't have a slight euphoric buzz."
Me too.

"I have never experienced the euphoria with any other drug, nor have I ever
experiences the fear, terror and humiliation"
Me neither. I don't do pot or speed or anything else. But wine, it's
viewed as a classy thing to have 'the right wine' with dinner, and it's
romantic, etc.

Nobody here seems to give a shit about the movies I watch, but really, go
rent 'The Lost Weekend'. That's EXACTLY what we're going through now. And
the ending is quite our solution. -Fred




"Gregg Fowler" <totsobNOSPAM@NOSPAMnetzero.com> wrote in message
news:cYudnZOwbOaJQ5LcRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Unfortunately this is so true. If you have ever been on the MM list it is
> very busy. You will see how many people are working to keep alcohol in
their
> lives and having problems. Unfortunately today after 4 month sober AGAIN I
> drank some wine my wife had in the refrigerator. I would be terrified if I
> didn't have a slight euphoric buzz. It does different things to me than
the
> normal drinker. I have never experienced the euphoria with any other drug,
> nor have I ever experiences the fear, terror and humiliation. God I need
> help. I saw this coming for days but was afraid to reach out or though I
> would get through the thinking.
>
> Gregg
>
> "Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> > Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it
worked
> > for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> > enough....
> >
> > I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If one
can
> > moderate, one is not an alcoholic.
> >
> >
> >
> > "neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:20881-410FBE01-114@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
> > >
> > > Why addiction cannot be moderate
> > > By Peter Provet, Ph.D.
> > > Published in Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly, July 31, 2000
> > >
> > >
> > > "Moderation is simply not in the behavioral vocabulary of the addict.
In
> > > fact, the principle of moderation represents the antithesis of
> > > addiction. The most common feature of all addictions (drugs, alcohol,
> > > food, gambling, etc.) is an excessive drive toward the addictive
object.
> > > The addict can never get enough. Addiction and recovery are
all-or-none
> > > phenomena.
> > >
> > >
> > > The following points strengthen the argument that moderate drinking
for
> > > alcohol abusers is inappropriate:
> > >
> > >
> > > As the biological and genetic underpinnings of addiction are
identified,
> > > addictive behavior is increasingly understood as a biologically based
> > > event where the reinforcement of pleasure for some can be an
insatiable
> > > drive.
> > >
> > >
> > > Addiction is now widely recognized to have biological, psychological
and
> > > social causality.
> > > Addiction should not simply be regarded as the need for the addictive
> > > substance but rather as a complex process fulfilling, however
> > > temporarily, an individual's need for pleasure and avoidance of pain.
> > > The theory of cross-tolerance posits that if an addict's object of
> > > addiction were to disappear, a replacement soon would be found. Thus,
> > > the abstinence model calls for abstinence to all mood-altering
> > > substances. For example, too many cocaine addicts without histories of
> > > alcohol abuse have successfully quit cocaine and become alcoholics
after
> > > thinking they could drink socially.
> > >
> > >
> > > The argument supporting moderate drinking is based on the premise that
> > > it is possible to accurately and consistently diagnose the degree and
> > > severity of alcohol abuse. Moderate drinking is then seen as an option
> > > for individuals with milder cases of abuse. The problem with this
> > > premise is that substance abuse diagnosis is still at a relatively
> > > primitive level, complicated by the fact that abusers often have
> > > heightened if not sociopathic abilities to convince others of their
> > > perspectives and beliefs.
> > >
> > >
> > > Because of the ambivalence, confusion and denial that most addicts
bring
> > > into early treatment, consistency, certainty and clarity must underlie
> > > all treatment approaches. The moderate use of a substance that has
been
> > > immoderately abused contradicts this fundamental position."
> > >
> > > http://www.odysseyhouseinc.org/News/adaw0700.html
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

One other thing: If you just started drinking again today, you've got a WAY
better chance of switching gears again. Your body is not reliant on booze
right now, compared to a binge drinker. I'm not going to ask you do
anything -that might make you want to drink more...
-Fred


"Gregg Fowler" <totsobNOSPAM@NOSPAMnetzero.com> wrote in message
news:cYudnZOwbOaJQ5LcRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Unfortunately this is so true. If you have ever been on the MM list it is
> very busy. You will see how many people are working to keep alcohol in
their
> lives and having problems. Unfortunately today after 4 month sober AGAIN I
> drank some wine my wife had in the refrigerator. I would be terrified if I
> didn't have a slight euphoric buzz. It does different things to me than
the
> normal drinker. I have never experienced the euphoria with any other drug,
> nor have I ever experiences the fear, terror and humiliation. God I need
> help. I saw this coming for days but was afraid to reach out or though I
> would get through the thinking.
>
> Gregg
>
> "Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> > Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it
worked
> > for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> > enough....
> >
> > I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If one
can
> > moderate, one is not an alcoholic.
> >
> >
> >
> > "neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:20881-410FBE01-114@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
> > >
> > > Why addiction cannot be moderate
> > > By Peter Provet, Ph.D.
> > > Published in Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly, July 31, 2000
> > >
> > >
> > > "Moderation is simply not in the behavioral vocabulary of the addict.
In
> > > fact, the principle of moderation represents the antithesis of
> > > addiction. The most common feature of all addictions (drugs, alcohol,
> > > food, gambling, etc.) is an excessive drive toward the addictive
object.
> > > The addict can never get enough. Addiction and recovery are
all-or-none
> > > phenomena.
> > >
> > >
> > > The following points strengthen the argument that moderate drinking
for
> > > alcohol abusers is inappropriate:
> > >
> > >
> > > As the biological and genetic underpinnings of addiction are
identified,
> > > addictive behavior is increasingly understood as a biologically based
> > > event where the reinforcement of pleasure for some can be an
insatiable
> > > drive.
> > >
> > >
> > > Addiction is now widely recognized to have biological, psychological
and
> > > social causality.
> > > Addiction should not simply be regarded as the need for the addictive
> > > substance but rather as a complex process fulfilling, however
> > > temporarily, an individual's need for pleasure and avoidance of pain.
> > > The theory of cross-tolerance posits that if an addict's object of
> > > addiction were to disappear, a replacement soon would be found. Thus,
> > > the abstinence model calls for abstinence to all mood-altering
> > > substances. For example, too many cocaine addicts without histories of
> > > alcohol abuse have successfully quit cocaine and become alcoholics
after
> > > thinking they could drink socially.
> > >
> > >
> > > The argument supporting moderate drinking is based on the premise that
> > > it is possible to accurately and consistently diagnose the degree and
> > > severity of alcohol abuse. Moderate drinking is then seen as an option
> > > for individuals with milder cases of abuse. The problem with this
> > > premise is that substance abuse diagnosis is still at a relatively
> > > primitive level, complicated by the fact that abusers often have
> > > heightened if not sociopathic abilities to convince others of their
> > > perspectives and beliefs.
> > >
> > >
> > > Because of the ambivalence, confusion and denial that most addicts
bring
> > > into early treatment, consistency, certainty and clarity must underlie
> > > all treatment approaches. The moderate use of a substance that has
been
> > > immoderately abused contradicts this fundamental position."
> > >
> > > http://www.odysseyhouseinc.org/News/adaw0700.html
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it
worked
> for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> enough....
>
> I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If
one can
> moderate, one is not an alcoholic.

The Moderation Management organisation specifically targets non
alcoholics.
http://www.moderation.org/whatisMM.shtml

I've never seen alcoholics who happen to be bender drinkers
adequately explained as being addicts, so don't believe all
alcoholics are addicts.

On the other hand I've seen folk diagnosed as alcoholic merely
because they attended an AA meeting. Found it highly
amusing watching that happen to people who attended AA searching for
insight about the drinking of a relative.

Dr Silkworth's argument is interesting, "the action of alcohol on
these
chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the
phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in
the average temperate drinker. ....... they cannot start drinking
without developing the phenomenon of craving. This phenomenon, as we
have suggested, may be the manifestation of an allergy which
differentiates these people, and sets them apart as a distinct
entity. It has never been, by any treatment with which we are
familiar, permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest
is entire abstinence."

Dr Silkworth obviously referred to craving *after* the first drink,
as distinct from craving *prior* to abuse common to drug
and/or alcohol addicts.

Bob.

>
>
>
> "neuro equipoise" <NeuroEquipoise@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:20881-410FBE01-114@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net...
> >
> > Why addiction cannot be moderate
> > By Peter Provet, Ph.D.
> > Published in Alcoholism & Drug Abuse Weekly, July 31, 2000
> >
> >
> > "Moderation is simply not in the behavioral vocabulary of the
addict. In
> > fact, the principle of moderation represents the antithesis of
> > addiction. The most common feature of all addictions (drugs,
alcohol,
> > food, gambling, etc.) is an excessive drive toward the addictive
object.
> > The addict can never get enough. Addiction and recovery are
all-or-none
> > phenomena.
> >
> >
> > The following points strengthen the argument that moderate
drinking for
> > alcohol abusers is inappropriate:
> >
> >
> > As the biological and genetic underpinnings of addiction are
identified,
> > addictive behavior is increasingly understood as a biologically
based
> > event where the reinforcement of pleasure for some can be an
insatiable
> > drive.
> >
> >
> > Addiction is now widely recognized to have biological,
psychological and
> > social causality.
> > Addiction should not simply be regarded as the need for the
addictive
> > substance but rather as a complex process fulfilling, however
> > temporarily, an individual's need for pleasure and avoidance of
pain.
> > The theory of cross-tolerance posits that if an addict's object
of
> > addiction were to disappear, a replacement soon would be found.
Thus,
> > the abstinence model calls for abstinence to all mood-altering
> > substances. For example, too many cocaine addicts without
histories of
> > alcohol abuse have successfully quit cocaine and become
alcoholics after
> > thinking they could drink socially.
> >
> >
> > The argument supporting moderate drinking is based on the premise
that
> > it is possible to accurately and consistently diagnose the degree
and
> > severity of alcohol abuse. Moderate drinking is then seen as an
option
> > for individuals with milder cases of abuse. The problem with this
> > premise is that substance abuse diagnosis is still at a
relatively
> > primitive level, complicated by the fact that abusers often have
> > heightened if not sociopathic abilities to convince others of
their
> > perspectives and beliefs.
> >
> >
> > Because of the ambivalence, confusion and denial that most
addicts bring
> > into early treatment, consistency, certainty and clarity must
underlie
> > all treatment approaches. The moderate use of a substance that
has been
> > immoderately abused contradicts this fundamental position."
> >
> > http://www.odysseyhouseinc.org/News/adaw0700.html
> >
>
>

"I agree with all of this. For me, the realization that I had a problem
came when I found that I "needed" that drink for confidence, or deal with a
difficult situation"
Couldn't agree more.

"It helps to know that I'm not alone and unique."
Couldn't agree more.

When I'm sober, everybody tells me how much better they like me. When I'm
drunk, I, and I alone, think how much more wittier I am....

Thanks for posting this. -Fred


"Kirk S." <crayzkirk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FkRPc.70589$vN3.44744@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:ceomgq$1d7$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and it
> > worked
> > > for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't get
> > > enough....
> > >
> > > I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron. If
> > one can
> > > moderate, one is not an alcoholic.
> >
> > Hi Fred,
> >
> > Recently, in another forum, I posted the following:
> >
> > "There may come a time when your friend is willing to hear the news
> > that alcoholism is an illness from which people can - and do - recover
> >
> > Recovery comes about in alcoholics who have learnt to not believe any
> > thoughts they have that it is OK for them to drink.
> >
> > If you have a copy of the BB,take a look at the chapters "The Dr's
> > Opinion" and "There is a Solution". In them you will discover the idea
> > that when alcoholics drink alcohol their body develops a powerful
> > physical craving for more of it and it this craving which forces them
> > to keep on drinking. Also, you'll discover the idea that for as long
> > as alcoholics drink no alcohol, they'll never trigger their craving
> > for
> > it and therefore alcohol can no longer harm them.
> >
> > At a later date, another idea that you might pass onto your friend is
> > the idea that people drink because they like the effect alcohol has on
> > them. Now, I'm not talking about the hangovers and sickness that often
> > come after drinking too much but rather the effect alcohol has long
> > before that state is reached. Examples: When I discovered that alcohol
> > enabled me to overcome my shyness (ie it gave me confidence), often, I
> > would drink in order to acquire that confidence. When I discovered
> > that it made me feel accepted by people around whom I wanted to be, I
> > drank in order to feel accepted. When I discovered that drinking could
> > cause my brain to temporarily shut down, thus enabling me to get
> > temporary relief from anything that was causing me to feel stressed to
> > the point of needing a break from life, I'd often drink to achieve
> > that state of temporary oblivion.
> >
> > If the ideas that alcoholism is an illness that affects both the mind
> > and body and that people drink because they like the effect alcohol
> > has on them comes to appeal to your friend and he wants to recover
> > from alcoholism, then AA's 12 Step programme is designed to help him
> > do just that"
> >
> > Maybe that post contains info that someone other than me will think
> > makes sense and therefore maybe will prove helpful to
> > them.
> >
> > ATB
> >
> > JB
> >
> Hey JB,
>
> I agree with all of this. For me, the realization that I had a problem
came
> when I found that I "needed" that drink for confidence, or deal with a
> difficult situation or the worst one: to be the person that I thought I
> should be. I believe that for me, alcohol has such a profound effect that
I
> treat it like a deadly poison. Even a little bit could be fatal to me and
> people around me.
>
> It helps to know that I'm not alone and unique. In a perfect world, no
one
> would have to deal with addiction. Alas, there is no such thing and I
must
> do the best that I can for as long as I am here.
>
> Thankful that I was able to put it down before I hurt myself or anyone
else.
>
> Kirk S.
> >
> >
>
>

"Kirk S." <crayzkirk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FkRPc.70589$vN3.44744@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> news:ceomgq$1d7$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:10gvlkqnhgr06af@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Unfortunately, I believe this is true. I tried moderating, and
it
> > worked
> > > for awhile, but once you get back on the stuff, you just can't
get
> > > enough....
> > >
> > > I think moderation management for an alcoholic is an oxymoron.
If
> > one can
> > > moderate, one is not an alcoholic.
> >
> > Hi Fred,
> >
> > Recently, in another forum, I posted the following:
> >
> > "There may come a time when your friend is willing to hear the
news
> > that alcoholism is an illness from which people can - and do -
recover
> >
> > Recovery comes about in alcoholics who have learnt to not believe
any
> > thoughts they have that it is OK for them to drink.
> >
> > If you have a copy of the BB,take a look at the chapters "The Dr's
> > Opinion" and "There is a Solution". In them you will discover the
idea
> > that when alcoholics drink alcohol their body develops a powerful
> > physical craving for more of it and it this craving which forces
them
> > to keep on drinking. Also, you'll discover the idea that for as
long
> > as alcoholics drink no alcohol, they'll never trigger their
craving
> > for
> > it and therefore alcohol can no longer harm them.
> >
> > At a later date, another idea that you might pass onto your friend
is
> > the idea that people drink because they like the effect alcohol
has on
> > them. Now, I'm not talking about the hangovers and sickness that
often
> > come after drinking too much but rather the effect alcohol has
long
> > before that state is reached. Examples: When I discovered that
alcohol
> > enabled me to overcome my shyness (ie it gave me confidence),
often, I
> > would drink in order to acquire that confidence. When I discovered
> > that it made me feel accepted by people around whom I wanted to
be, I
> > drank in order to feel accepted. When I discovered that drinking
could
> > cause my brain to temporarily shut down, thus enabling me to get
> > temporary relief from anything that was causing me to feel
stressed to
> > the point of needing a break from life, I'd often drink to achieve
> > that state of temporary oblivion.
> >
> > If the ideas that alcoholism is an illness that affects both the
mind
> > and body and that people drink because they like the effect
alcohol
> > has on them comes to appeal to your friend and he wants to recover
> > from alcoholism, then AA's 12 Step programme is designed to help
him
> > do just that"
> >
> > Maybe that post contains info that someone other than me will
think
> > makes sense and therefore maybe will prove helpful to
> > them.
> >
> > ATB
> >
> > JB
> >
> Hey JB,
>
> I agree with all of this. For me, the realization that I had a
problem came
> when I found that I "needed" that drink for confidence, or deal with
a
> difficult situation or the worst one: to be the person that I
thought I
> should be. I believe that for me, alcohol has such a profound
effect that I
> treat it like a deadly poison. Even a little bit could be fatal to
me and
> people around me.
>
> It helps to know that I'm not alone and unique. In a perfect world,
no one
> would have to deal with addiction. Alas, there is no such thing and
I must
> do the best that I can for as long as I am here.
>
> Thankful that I was able to put it down before I hurt myself or
anyone else.
>
> Kirk S.
> >
It is good to hear about your success.

JB