"Gail" <sweetpawprints_920@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10aqijekthfv129@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "NoJunk" <Not@AOL.com.net> wrote in message
> news:Qwbrc.470$Ly.268315@attbi_s51...
> > I am sorry if I ask what might be a sensitive question here but does
> > EVERYONE on the group subscribe to the belief that alcoholism is
> absolutely
> > an incurable illness. No matter HOW long a person continues on with
their
> > life without any use of the drug,substance,agent,chemical or whatever
one
> > decides to call it. I am in my mid fifties and have not had a drink for
> > seven years but started at around 13. Probably like everyone else just
to
> be
> > cool or whatever. My plans were to give up my recklessness and fun
> behavior
> > at some old age and so far all has gone like I planned. I have wasted
time
> > and money and you probably all think you know the rest of the story but
I
> am
> > not sure if I see it the way many are told by AA and others. Is this a
> > personal perception or a died in the wool no turning back diagnosis? I
> > respect the view of people way more intelligent than I and am not
looking
> > for an argument but I do have some resentment towards those that would
> call
> > me weak. I gave it up one day 'cold turkey' for the lack of another
> > description for no real reason. I feel STRONG not weak. I have never had
> an
> > urge of the slightest desire to either drink or smoke ever again and
that
> is
> > that. Many people that meet up with me from my past (MOST) ask me
'Ok-What
> > did you do-Puke on the cops- Kill someone-beat up your wife-...That sort
> of
> > mentality which might apply to many but not me. Ya, OK you say denial-
but
> > that also is not in my bag of tricks. Never been arrested-lost a job or
> even
> > missed work. I just had to get away from that crowd. Have none of these
> > friends now but who cares except I had learned to love so many of them.
My
> > gain and my loss I guess. I know I could drink again and do miss the
guys
> > and gals at the bar but just don't have the time for that anymore. I
have
> > been though hell in the past few years with life the way it can be but
> never
> > had any thoughts of resorting. I only drank for fun and if I had a bad
day
> > at work I never felt like drinking, only when I was ready to socialize
> would
> > I indulge for the fun of being with people in my class at a bar.
> >
> > Would some care to correct any self misconceptions or flame me or
> whatever
> > as I would like to know what others who have and do drink think. I can
get
> > all the free advice I want from the self righteous but what do they know
> > anyway.
> >
> > Sorry if I am out of line and if so just ignore me and I will go away
but
> I
> > do have some issues I wouldn't mind getting into if so be it.
> >
> > Thanks and respect.
> >
> > NoJunk
> >
> >
>
> Hi NoJunk! Congrats on the seven years! Keep doing whatever it is your
> doing. Other's might disagree with me and I am sure you will hear from
> them if they do.
> All the Best,
> Gail

Thank you Gail. Nothing can wash away the bad taste I have now. Still
overwelmingly depressed though. Actually wonder if it is not inherted from
a mom that never drank. Something that may have doomed me from day one.

NJ

"rosie" <readandpost@yahooORhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BNcrc.30913$oQ6.3944@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> :.................. I feel STRONG not weak. I have never had an
> : urge of the slightest desire to either drink or smoke ever again
> and that is
> : that.
>
>
> interesting couple of sentences!
> it made me think.................YES, i feel strong in my sobriety!
> i work my recovery program ONE DAY AT A TIME, but i KNOW that i will
> never be able to drink/drug or smoke again.
> welcome to the group and congrats on your seven years!
> rosie

Thanks for the welcome. I should have said I have ALWAYS BEEN strong and
not to speak against the well know saying but I feel for the first time I am
planning the rest of my life and thinking of one day at a time only allowed
me to put off what I should have done decades ago. But I guess I also deeply
believe that I have RECOVERED fully and can only NOW move on to a higher
plane. BTW I still have a Gallon of Seagrams Seven unopened on my night
stand I guess as a reminder of my former lifestyle. We have wine in the
fridge that my wife will drink from once every six months or so. This even
makes me stronger as I know I would no sooner partake than I ever would. No
need to hide I feel. Plenty of opportunity to puff also but not for this
guy.

Thanks

NJ

"Tono" <tono1@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4Rcrc.260$9B5.5@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> NoJunk wrote:
>
> > I am sorry if I ask what might be a sensitive question here but does
> > EVERYONE on the group subscribe to the belief that alcoholism is
absolutely
> > an incurable illness. No matter HOW long a person continues on with
their
> > life without any use of the drug,substance,agent,chemical or whatever
one
> > decides to call it.
>
> I personally can not fathom the thought of 1 drink. I know I would
> want many many more.
>
>
> I am in my mid fifties and have not had a drink for
> > seven years but started at around 13. Probably like everyone else just
to be
> > cool or whatever. My plans were to give up my recklessness and fun
behavior
> > at some old age and so far all has gone like I planned. I have wasted
time
> > and money and you probably all think you know the rest of the story but
I am
> > not sure if I see it the way many are told by AA and others. Is this a
> > personal perception or a died in the wool no turning back diagnosis? I
> > respect the view of people way more intelligent than I and am not
looking
> > for an argument but I do have some resentment towards those that would
call
> > me weak. I gave it up one day 'cold turkey' for the lack of another
> > description for no real reason. I feel STRONG not weak. I have never had
an
> > urge of the slightest desire to either drink or smoke ever again and
that is
> > that.
>
> I don't understand? If you have never had the slightest urge to
> drink, than why in the world would you want to do something you have
> no urge to do?

Many times I would go to the bar just to see my friends but when you stop
in to say hello and they convince you to stay and buy the drnks it is easy
to get cuaght up again. But I guess you already know that story



> Many people that meet up with me from my past (MOST) ask me 'Ok-What
> > did you do-Puke on the cops- Kill someone-beat up your wife-...That sort
of
> > mentality which might apply to many but not me. Ya, OK you say denial-
but
> > that also is not in my bag of tricks. Never been arrested-lost a job or
even
> > missed work.
>
> Same here as far as no arrests, never lost a job, never wrecked a
> car. Lot's of nevers in my story.
>
>
> I just had to get away from that crowd. Have none of these
> > friends now but who cares except I had learned to love so many of them.
My
> > gain and my loss I guess. I know I could drink again and do miss the
guys
> > and gals at the bar but just don't have the time for that anymore.
>
> So, you want to drink, but don't have time to go to a bar, so you
> want to drink at home I suppose? Have you ever taken the numerous
> "am I an alcoholic" tests? Did they apply to your drinking back
> then? If so, I'd be very afraid to give it a try again.

I don't want to drink. I want to have the fun I did with my old buddies.
THAT is the only thing I miss. I don't have the time now that I am doing the
things that I was unable to do while drunk. A whole knew life I guess. I
know if I had things I always wanted in life I would never have had the time
to begin with. Like a good paying job and not having to slave 60hrs a week
plus and kids to play with. But I promise I won't whine.

> I have
> > been though hell in the past few years with life the way it can be but
never
> > had any thoughts of resorting. I only drank for fun and if I had a bad
day
> > at work I never felt like drinking, only when I was ready to socialize
would
> > I indulge for the fun of being with people in my class at a bar.
>
> What do you mean by "people in my class"? A class from school days
> or a social or economic class?

I meant economical class. The undereducated working poor that could only
relax with others like myself. Same as school class isn't it? Don't the rich
go to other schools?

> > Would some care to correct any self misconceptions or flame me or
whatever
> > as I would like to know what others who have and do drink think. I can
get
> > all the free advice I want from the self righteous but what do they know
> > anyway.
> >
> > Sorry if I am out of line and if so just ignore me and I will go away
but I
> > do have some issues I wouldn't mind getting into if so be it.
>
> Maybe if you take care of the issues you have, you won't be
> wondering if you can drink again? :-)

No wondering for me. I know if I wanted to drink I could but I am really
stubborn. I also gave up coffee just because I was spending $15.00 plus a
week at Dunkin' Donuts. More than many other monthly bills. I never tuned
back from that either.

NoJunk.

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:dc45990fd0649642b1d571c507cd0310@news.teranew s.com...
> No Junk, you don't sound like an alcoholic drinker to me. An
> alcoholic drinker is unable to stop, or moderate. You may yet be a
> potential alcoholic, but only time will tell. Sounds like you are
> doing ok, and in no way should go to any AA meetings, unless you are
> interested in hanging around with a bunch of self-absorbed freaks for
> awhile, for interests' sake.
>
> But i'm just one voice among many. Only you can undo your personal
> particular puzzle.
>
Thank you very much. Reading this makes feel good. I guess this is what I
really want to know(hear). I have always thought that AA must not be the
best thing for many. Although I have never been I always thought of them as
like being a Doctor that tells you you have to keep coming back forever in
order to get any help. Sort of self fulfilling on the part of the industry I
believe.

NJ

"John Droge" <jhdroge@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:d6erc.3176$Tn6.1853@newsread1.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
>
> "NoJunk" <Not@AOL.com.net> wrote in message
> news:Qwbrc.470$Ly.268315@attbi_s51...
> > I am sorry if I ask what might be a sensitive question here but does
> > EVERYONE on the group subscribe to the belief that alcoholism is
> absolutely
> > an incurable illness.
> >
> >
> Yeah alcoholism is for keeps. Why do you ask? From what your saying the
> only thing that can be told is the you are probably incurably class
> conscious.
> Want to find if you are also an alcoholic?--go try some controlled
drinking
> and call us in the morning.
> John
>
I could do that but then I could not honestly say that I gave it up
forever. I guess I really care about what others think about me and would
just say 'Ya SURE you gave it up'. I am really thinking that the effects are
different for different people. Some maybe many are hooked for life but I
don't believe that I am. Like the way smoking effects people. Some seem to
live forever while some do not. (Wife's granddad passed in his 80's and
never missed a day of drink or smoke) Many things are still unknown. Is
there something in the body that fights things that are not present in all?

JK

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:d285e1c17aea83c711157e051b4759ef@news.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 02:48:41 GMT, "John Droge"
> <jhdroge@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Want to find if you are also an alcoholic?--go try some controlled
drinking
> >and call us in the morning.
>
> Nah. Try it more than once. On different days.

Ha. I like your style.

"Kirk S." <kspradling@nospamkc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hafrc.30932$oQ6.18317@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Hi,
>
> Actually, I have a problem with the disease label and calling choosing to
> drink a relapse. Cancer patients relapse, alcoholics choose to drink.
What
> I know about myself is that at certain times, I will not control my
> drinking. Since I know this about myself, I can either choose to ignore
it
> and get myself in trouble or choose to not make excuses and work on the
> issues that caused me to want to escape in the first place.
>
> It follows the classic disease definition of something that if allowed to
> continue unchecked, it will kill you.
>
> To me it doesn't matter what label I want to put on it. I choose not to
> drink and do whatever is necessary to address ths issues that I have.
>
> There is always more than one way to look at things. This is simply how I
> choose to look at it. Works for me and whatever works for you, is fine by
> me...
>
> My way of (not) dealing with my issues is my disease...
>
> Kirk S.
>

Excellent post. I have always been critical of myself and stood way back
when looking in the mirror. I say that it is not what or when you drink that
defines ones self but WHAT YOU DO that make all the difference.

PS.
My rules for driving home from the bar. I used to stop in for ONE HUGH
Chinese drink(maybe two). I knew if I drank fast enough and made it home at
just the right time I would be fine as it was only a mile I had to drive.
Being stopped enough times and played the game and won I realized I was just
lucky. The Cops ALWAYS make you sit from 30 minutes or more.

1. Always think you WILL be stopped.
2. Always keep the windows rolled up. Lower it just enough to pass out your
papers. Cops can't say they smelled if the window is up
3. Keep your papers on the seat beside you so you don't 'fumble' to get
them out.
4. Keep a cane with you so when you are asked to get out you will not be
asked to 'walk the line'
5. Mention you have a medical condition that effects your balance like a
punctured ear drum.
6.(should be number one) .Always check your car for a light that might be
out so not to give reason to be pulled over.

NJ

> PS.
> My rules for driving home from the bar. I used to stop in for ONE HUGH
> Chinese drink(maybe two). I knew if I drank fast enough and made it home
at
> just the right time I would be fine as it was only a mile I had to drive.
> Being stopped enough times and played the game and won I realized I was
just
> lucky. The Cops ALWAYS make you sit from 30 minutes or more.
>
> 1. Always think you WILL be stopped.
> 2. Always keep the windows rolled up. Lower it just enough to pass out
your
> papers. Cops can't say they smelled if the window is up
> 3. Keep your papers on the seat beside you so you don't 'fumble' to get
> them out.
> 4. Keep a cane with you so when you are asked to get out you will not be
> asked to 'walk the line'
> 5. Mention you have a medical condition that effects your balance like a
> punctured ear drum.
> 6.(should be number one) .Always check your car for a light that might be
> out so not to give reason to be pulled over.
>
> NJ

Thanks for the tips! Also, keep a cigar handy in the car, and if pulled
over, immediately light it and manically puff away -who the hell can smell
alcohol through thick cigar smoke?

But of everything said so far in this thread, here's what's most
significant:

"I have not seen my little friends for over six months and I still cry as I
can never let go with this and move on."

I bet they're missing you too, and six months isn't time enough to conclude
your influence in their lives is ended. You might just see them again. But
if the next time they see you, they see you are drinking again, how do you
think they will feel about that, given the devastation alcohol has wreaked
on their mother? Personally I don't think you have a problem with alcohol,
but if there is a possibility you will see those kids again, this sure isn't
the time to begin drinking again. Even if you can drink normally, it could
and would be used against you, i.e:

"She told me she was told that I was STILL sick and would always be so and
not to believe otherwise. I guess I resent this and wondered if it was the
'Way of thinking' of the healers in the industry."

It certainly IS. Some drinkers need help, others can moderate, but to a
'healer', anybody who has ever had more than two beers in six months needs
help. THEIR help, quite conveniently $$$-wise for THEM, and if you don't
need their help, they'll be the last on earth to tell you. -Fred.

"Fred Exley" <fexly221@msn.com> wrote in message
news:10argvp2q6jnj9a@corp.supernews.com...
> > PS.
> > My rules for driving home from the bar. I used to stop in for ONE HUGH
> > Chinese drink(maybe two). I knew if I drank fast enough and made it home
> at
> > just the right time I would be fine as it was only a mile I had to
drive.
> > Being stopped enough times and played the game and won I realized I was
> just
> > lucky. The Cops ALWAYS make you sit from 30 minutes or more.
> >
> > 1. Always think you WILL be stopped.
> > 2. Always keep the windows rolled up. Lower it just enough to pass out
> your
> > papers. Cops can't say they smelled if the window is up
> > 3. Keep your papers on the seat beside you so you don't 'fumble' to get
> > them out.
> > 4. Keep a cane with you so when you are asked to get out you will not
be
> > asked to 'walk the line'
> > 5. Mention you have a medical condition that effects your balance like
a
> > punctured ear drum.
> > 6.(should be number one) .Always check your car for a light that might
be
> > out so not to give reason to be pulled over.
> >
> > NJ
>
> Thanks for the tips! Also, keep a cigar handy in the car, and if pulled
> over, immediately light it and manically puff away -who the hell can
smell
> alcohol through thick cigar smoke?
>
> But of everything said so far in this thread, here's what's most
> significant:
>
> "I have not seen my little friends for over six months and I still cry as
I
> can never let go with this and move on."
>
> I bet they're missing you too, and six months isn't time enough to
conclude
> your influence in their lives is ended. You might just see them again.
But
> if the next time they see you, they see you are drinking again, how do you
> think they will feel about that, given the devastation alcohol has wreaked
> on their mother? Personally I don't think you have a problem with
alcohol,
> but if there is a possibility you will see those kids again, this sure
isn't
> the time to begin drinking again. Even if you can drink normally, it
could
> and would be used against you, i.e:

This was more then just bad words exchanged. When I displayed my discomfort
over the phone she FLEW home and began pounding on my door. She said some
really nasty things that resulted in me reminder her she was drunk. Smelling
like booze and all. She went on about ME being a sick person and made some
off the wall claims that I was even a drug dealer and a child molester and
that I beat my wife. She had just called the boys over from across the
street to witness her ripping me up and down. She then entered my home where
she began to assault me with hand and fist. The 10 year old then joined in
striking me as he though I was about to harm her.I was totally horrified. I
will NEVER forget the look on the face of the 8 year old as he looked on in
HORROR. A neighbor came to assist in removing her but she returned. After
the second time I called the police and waiting in the street for their
arrival. They ran to me and grabbed me as though I WAS THE CRIMINAL and took
her at her word that I assaulted her. This resulted in court as we were
papered for 'Common Assault' on each other. The judge smiled at her and
scowled at me. I never got to tell it the way it was and no one ever
believed me from the start. She has poisoned the boys and told them it is
against the law for them to ever speak to me again. NO HOPE of ever seeing
my friends again. I only have her 15 yr. old daughter left to believe me.
She was beaten and dragged around by her hair when 'mom' return from a
drunken night out more than once. She was not there as she was tossed out of
the house by mom at the age of 10 but knows well what 'mom' is capable of
doing. Her dad does not want here either and has since placed her in home
far away. I pay for her cell phone and we talk on occasion but not the same
as when the boys and I went to the movies and got haircuts together and all
the rest. I have since become totally withdrawn and deeply depressed but I
guess that would be another newsgroup. The longest and loneliest six months
of my pathetic life.

>
> "She told me she was told that I was STILL sick and would always be so and
> not to believe otherwise. I guess I resent this and wondered if it was the
> 'Way of thinking' of the healers in the industry."
>
> It certainly IS. Some drinkers need help, others can moderate, but to a
> 'healer', anybody who has ever had more than two beers in six months needs
> help. THEIR help, quite conveniently $$$-wise for THEM, and if you don't
> need their help, they'll be the last on earth to tell you. -Fred.
>
>

PS-I forgot to logon as NoJunk and my real name is John so I guess I have
blown my cover for all the googlites that are interested.

Oh well.