:
: Fuck off rosie
:
: http://tinyurl.com/2gfko
:
: Bob
:
:

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, robert, you don't mean that!
(((((((((((((((((((((((((ROBERT))))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))))))))

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:f0af80eff3b13b23d7db75743d09514e@news.teranew s.com...
> On Fri, 7 May 2004 09:40:54 -0500, "Gail" <gettingthere@righthere.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I should have said that I think he/she is more knowledgeable of
alcoholism
> >and addiction than he./she portrays. I have a hard time believing someone
is
> >serious when they don't even let us know what sex they are.
> >He/she gets off on our reaction to his/her crap, don't you rockhound? May
> >the moon always shine bright on you., rockhound
>
> Thanks for being so sharp, Gail. Appreciate someone who's able to
> watch my back and influence me for the better.
>
> If you had been enabled to take the interest to read anything else in
> my introductory post to your group here besides the part about you,
> you might have noticed i was rather as clear regarding my sex, as well
> as my current condition, to the best of my ability to evaluate it at
> the time.
>
> As to my 'knowledge', I have been virtually surrounded by alcoholics
> of every description since the tender age of 13, sentenced to my very
> first all expenses paid by your Government Of Drugs treatment center
> at sweet 14 where i was promptly fucked by counselors, and
> subsequently regulated to AA ranks, without ever being given the
> chance to hit bottom. Rather, the system hit my bottom for me.
> Looking back, i suppose i probably deserved this much.
>
> At 17 one of you delivered me AA's message. Shortly after some fools
> elected me GSR of their group whereupon i decided that given the mess
> people had made of your fellowship, if i was going to take on the
> seemingly monumental task of doing the right thing i had better make
> good and fucking sure i was alcoholic first.
>
> So here i am with rocks in my pocket, a half a lifetime and that many
> adventures later, having spent the last 3 years in virtual isolation
> trying to drown you fuckers, and my life, out. And what do you know
> - the compulsion to drink has vanished.
>
> Try not to act surprised if you recognize something in a rubber room
> lined with AA quotes. Also, try not to be too surprised if i display
> a bit of hostility, in between jokes. I'm a fucking alcoholic. Now
> I'm sober, I got a chip, and I guess I'm in the game. Should we deal
> a round? I'll try to be nice.
>
> You have no miracle but the miracle of Jonah.
>
> May the sun shine directly in your eyes.
>
> rockhound (<-- small r)

Thank you for your reply, rockhound. I am sorry but, I didn't remember
reading anything about you. Only of me and some of the others. I can't go
back and read it again because I usually clean up my newsreader's post
everyday. Maybe I shouldn't. That is the disadvantage of doing that.
I just want you to know that it isn't my AA or my fellowship. Maybe you
should try something else, other than AA?
I don't think that you are not nice at all. I guess I am really having a
hard time understanding your post at times.
LOL..Thank goodness for sunglasses.
I was a smart ass when I post about you. I am sorry and will try to take
time to read what you are posting.
All the Best,
Gail

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:2g2t4lF3em7mU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Melia Tomas" <leetomas@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:2g27fpF3kq96U1@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
> > news:c7g22n$oa3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > > "Melia Tomas" <leetomas@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:2g1fh1F3dfejU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > > > Was listing to a tape the other day where this person shared that
"The telling of our stories is the real *Key* to "AA". It is the "How" and
"What" of AA.
> > > >
> > > > Melia
> > > >
> > > You are talking about the Fellowship of AA ? The key to recovery via
the AA route is, surely, its 12 Step programme in the BB ?
> > >
> > > JB
> >
> > And what is at the basis of all the success stories we hear during the
fellowship time as those who take their stand in sharing about their ESH's
Jb?
> > The success in *ALL* our stories is because they are all based on the12
Steps and before the newcomer has chance to get a book and read it where the
steps are concerned, the Key to them hearing the Message First is (imo)
really the "How & What" of AA. Must I remind you of Step 12??? (the "how"
of sharing our stories with other alcoholics and the "what" of AA
....Step12...That's what the program for those who are working it is all
about.
> > Melia
> > Thanks for sharing.
> > >
> >
>
> Melia, what a load of unmitigated bullshit.
>
> Most of the "success" stories I heard in AA were subsequently *proven* to
be a mere prelude to a drink. *Contextual* step 12 could not be more
explicit than *this* message, yet is obviously still being confused with the
preamble of the AA fellowship" something entirely different!
>
> Bob
>
why the need for a dividing line?
would I be wrong in saying that AA is a "fellowship prorgram based on 12
steps?
and the two can work as "one" for the good of all, can't it? (for those that
want it, that is....)
Melia

yes, melia, the two CAN work as one and often do.
the BIG BOOK is a "guide" used by many, and it is chocked full of
"suggestions"!

--
rosie

SOME OF THE COST OF WAR:
http://www.infoshout.com/the_toll.htm



"Melia Tomas" <leetomas@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2g44q5F3uqt8U1@uni-berlin.de...
: why the need for a dividing line?
: would I be wrong in saying that AA is a "fellowship prorgram based
on 12
: steps?
: and the two can work as "one" for the good of all, can't it? (for
those that
: want it, that is....)
: Melia
:
:

On Sat, 8 May 2004 07:54:06 +0200, "Mias Strydom"
<emiasno@spamnetactivetome.co.za> wrote:

>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:0bf0f7ef4f4128185a92da21ce2d44f3@news.terane ws.com...
>> I myself am new here, mistrusted, > not very well liked, having an
>abundance of personality problems and
>> difficulties relating with people. In fact, I'm probably a bit over the
>lunatic fringe, truth be known, and just barely sober
>> myself, although I know not how exactly. However, as an integral part of
>what
>> i have been advised to do in order to overcome alcoholism, i will make
>> here an small effort to pass on what I've been learning over the
>> years. Please note that I make this effort only in the hope of
>> benefitting myself, and you may find you wish to have little or
>> nothing further to do with me personally, especially after reading
>> some of the crap i post here.
>Dear Rocky IV - 'They' say that one can not talk the talk unless one has
>walked the walk. You surely can qualify as a walker talker.
>Thank you for this excellent description of 'The Walk'. I need to remind
>myself who and what I am regularly and this was a good wake-up call back to
>reality.
>Kind regards
>Mias
>Sober since waking up this morning, just for today, one day at a time. What
>a precious day!

Hardly seems fair that you should benefit. I still don't feel any
better.

On Sat, 8 May 2004 08:03:04 -0500, "Gail" <gettingthere@righthere.com>
wrote:


>Thank you for your reply, rockhound. I am sorry but, I didn't remember
>reading anything about you. Only of me and some of the others. I can't go
>back and read it again because I usually clean up my newsreader's post
>everyday. Maybe I shouldn't. That is the disadvantage of doing that.
>I just want you to know that it isn't my AA or my fellowship. Maybe you
>should try something else, other than AA?
>I don't think that you are not nice at all. I guess I am really having a
>hard time understanding your post at times.
>LOL..Thank goodness for sunglasses.
>I was a smart ass when I post about you. I am sorry and will try to take
>time to read what you are posting.
>All the Best,
>Gail

Thanks Gail. I don't understand myself either - I'm a very poor judge
of where I'm at and mixed motives swamp me most of the time. In
days of old it was fun being called precocious. Gets pretty old when
you're nearer 40. All in all, I guess, it hasn't really been a bad
childhood, just a hell of a long one. Anyway if you hear somebody's
cage rattling down the way, it's probably just mine.

"Like so many, I find myself standing on a mountain of glass, looking
for the diamond I threw away."
- Sorry if i happen to step on some of yours in my frantic search.

rockhound

PS Got some pretty good reflective shades, myself

"Melia Tomas" <leetomas@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2g44q5F3uqt8U1@uni-berlin.de...
> "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:2g2t4lF3em7mU1@uni-berlin.de...
Bob wrote:
> > Most of the "success" stories I heard in AA were subsequently
*proven* to
> be a mere prelude to a drink. *Contextual* step 12 could not be
more
> explicit than *this* message, yet is obviously still being confused
with the
> preamble of the AA fellowship" something entirely different!
> >
> > Bob

Melia wrote:> >
> why the need for a dividing line?
> would I be wrong in saying that AA is a "fellowship prorgram based
on 12
> steps?
> and the two can work as "one" for the good of all, can't it? (for
those that
> want it, that is....)
> Melia

Melia,

Have you listened to the Joe and Charlie tapes "Journey in Recovery"?
There's a section in them that explains how the 12 Step programme in
the BB and the Fellowship of AA became two separate entities.

Once the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" went into circulation, it did not
take long before some of those who read it began to question whether
it was necessary to follow the programme in that book exactly in order
to recover from alcoholism. Those who decided that it wasn't
necessary developed their own ideas about what they needed to do and
then put their ideas into practice. Their programmes, were not
identical to the programme in the book. Such programmes may include
such ideas as it's only necessary to give alcohol over to God (not
one's entire life); that no-one is powerless over alcohol; and we
can't get rid of all our character defects because that would leave us
with no personality. Folk in AA's early days who adapted the
programme in the BB to suit their needs continued to consider
themselves members of AA's
Fellowship. Folk like this can be found in AA today.
..
The programme in the BB appears IMO to be designed to help alcoholics
to not only understand why they cannot beat their alcoholism by
relying on willpower alone but also to teach them a new way of living
which includes taking personal responsibility for one's actions.
Arguably, it also encourages individuals to behave in a civil manner.

When I see AA folk who claim to have worked " The Programme" behaving
in what appears to be an egotistical manner, witness them slagging off
others, not making amends for wrongs they have done and not being able
to cope when life isn't perfect for them for example, I do not get the
impression that they are at that time practising the programme that's
in the BB exactly as it was intended to be practised.

<g>

I'll end with a little story that Joe (of Joe and Charlie, both AAers,
tells):

One day, Joe rang his sponsor Franklin to discuss with him the hard
time Joe was having and Joe's views that "The Programme" wasn't
working for him. When Franklin asked Joe to explain why he was having
a hard time, Joe said that he was a mad at his wife, mad with his
boss, mad with ................... ( blah de blah de blah). Franklin
replied "Joe, your programme's working just fine. Now, how about
working "The Programme" ? Joe did and his life got a whole lot
better :^)

All the best.

JB

"JB" <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote in message
news:c7iu1s$tda$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Melia Tomas" <leetomas@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:2g44q5F3uqt8U1@uni-berlin.de...
> > "Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:2g2t4lF3em7mU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Bob wrote:
> > > Most of the "success" stories I heard in AA were subsequently *proven*
to be a mere prelude to a drink. *Contextual* step 12 could not be more
explicit than *this* message, yet is obviously still being confused with the
preamble of the AA fellowship" something entirely different!
> > >
> > > Bob
>
> Melia wrote:> >
> > why the need for a dividing line?
> > would I be wrong in saying that AA is a "fellowship prorgram based on 12
steps? and the two can work as "one" for the good of all, can't it? (for
those that want it, that is....)
> > Melia
>
> Melia,
>
> Have you listened to the Joe and Charlie tapes "Journey in Recovery"?

I must admit, it's been a long time since I have listened to my tapes of Joe
and Charlie. Guess this means it's time for me to dig it out of my
collection and refresh my memory.

Thanks for sharing JB.
Melia

> There's a section in them that explains how the 12 Step programme in the
BB and the Fellowship of AA became two separate entities.
>
> Once the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" went into circulation, it did not
take long before some of those who read it began to question whether it was
necessary to follow the programme in that book exactly in order to recover
from alcoholism. Those who decided that it wasn't necessary developed their
own ideas about what they needed to do and then put their ideas into
practice. Their programmes, were not identical to the programme in the
book. Such programmes may include such ideas as it's only necessary to
give alcohol over to God (not
> one's entire life); that no-one is powerless over alcohol; and we can't
get rid of all our character defects because that would leave us with no
personality. Folk in AA's early days who adapted the programme in the BB to
suit their needs continued to consider themselves members of AA's>
Fellowship. Folk like this can be found in AA today.
> .
> The programme in the BB appears IMO to be designed to help alcoholics to
not only understand why they cannot beat their alcoholism by relying on
willpower alone but also to teach them a new way of living which includes
taking personal responsibility for one's actions.
Arguably, it also encourages individuals to behave in a civil manner.
>
> When I see AA folk who claim to have worked " The Programme" behaving in
what appears to be an egotistical manner, witness them slagging off others,
not making amends for wrongs they have done and not being able to cope when
life isn't perfect for them for example, I do not get the impression that
they are at that time practising the programme that's in the BB exactly as
it was intended to be practised.
>
> <g>
>
> I'll end with a little story that Joe (of Joe and Charlie, both AAers,
> tells):
>
> One day, Joe rang his sponsor Franklin to discuss with him the hard
> time Joe was having and Joe's views that "The Programme" wasn't
> working for him. When Franklin asked Joe to explain why he was having
> a hard time, Joe said that he was a mad at his wife, mad with his
> boss, mad with ................... ( blah de blah de blah). Franklin
> replied "Joe, your programme's working just fine. Now, how about
> working "The Programme" ? Joe did and his life got a whole lot
> better :^)
>
> All the best.
>
> JB
>
>
>
>
>
>

"rosie" <readandpost@yahooorhotmail.com> wrote in message
newsh5nc.41384$u_4.3987@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> yes, melia, the two CAN work as one and often do.
> the BIG BOOK is a "guide" used by many, and it is chocked full of
> "suggestions"!
>
> --
> rosie

Rosie,

Am I right in thinking that you do not think it necessary for AAers
who are Sponsors to teach their Sponsees the programme as written in
the BB and encourage them to practice it ?

JB

: Rosie,
:
: Am I right in thinking that you do not think it necessary for
AAers
: who are Sponsors to teach their Sponsees the programme as written
in
: the BB and encourage them to practice it ?
:
: JB
:
:




you would be right in thinking that i don't believe that ANYTHING
in the BIG BOOK is written in stone.
you would be right if your thinking that i feel the same way about
the BIBLE, the QURAN, the TORAH, the DEAD SEA SCROLLS, etc etc etc

if you go back and REREAD your first 164 pages, you will find many
references to the "suggestions"...................

you can start with these:
EDITIONS xxvi, xxviii, 10, 12, 59, 86, 87, 94, 98, 111, 122, 130,
140, 164

as far as a sponsor goes, in 1982, i was willing to do WHATEVER it
was that my sponsor had done, to get and stay
sober......................
sharing EXPERIENCE, STRENGTH AND HOPE is what i believe in.
it works for me!