Bumped into this today, fwiw, while looking up natural sources of
seratonin:

http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/kindness/

just thought I'd share.

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:46:21 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com>
wrote:

>
>"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
>news:5959ef6f927f293cd39968d3813f0ae5@news.terane ws.com...
>: Bumped into this today, fwiw, while looking up natural sources of
>: seratonin:
>:
>: http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/kindness/
>:
>: just thought I'd share.
>
>
>
>thanks!
>(if only it were that simple for some of us!)

God is not the author of confusion.
r.

"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:5959ef6f927f293cd39968d3813f0ae5@news.teranew s.com...
: Bumped into this today, fwiw, while looking up natural sources of
: seratonin:
:
: http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/kindness/
:
: just thought I'd share.



thanks!
(if only it were that simple for some of us!)

: >thanks!
: >(if only it were that simple for some of us!)
:
: God is not the author of confusion.
: r.
:

explanation?

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:49:33 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com>
wrote:

>: >thanks!
>: >(if only it were that simple for some of us!)
>:
>: God is not the author of confusion.
>: r.
>:
>
>explanation?
>

Google it -

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...f+confusion%22.

are you trying to say you are a scientologist?

--
rosie

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or
that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
........................................T.Roosevel t
http://www.misleader.org











"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:ca4a0da104e5ef9d9d57ea22a3f80084@news.teranew s.com...
: On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:49:33 GMT, "rosie"
<sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com>
: wrote:
:
: >: >thanks!
: >: >(if only it were that simple for some of us!)
: >:
: >: God is not the author of confusion.
: >: r.
: >:
: >
: >explanation?
: >
:
: Google it -
:
:
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...f+confusion%22.

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:13:31 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com>
wrote:

>are you trying to say you are a scientologist?

holy fuck puhleeeease. Like yourself, rosie, except for that my
scorecards currently read zero, in desperation, i just try to make the
best use of what *anybody* has to offer.

" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:016cf472b9691729c7485ace09363659@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:46:21 GMT, "rosie"
<sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
> >news:5959ef6f927f293cd39968d3813f0ae5@news.terane ws.com...
> >: Bumped into this today, fwiw, while looking up natural sources of
> >: seratonin:
> >:
> >: http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/kindness/
> >:
> >: just thought I'd share.
> >
> >
> >
> >thanks!
> >(if only it were that simple for some of us!)
>
> God is not the author of confusion.
> r.

Not directly. Maybe sometimes he regrets his decision to give us
humans free will ? :^)

All the best

JB

--
rosie

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or
that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
........................................T.Roosevel t
http://www.misleader.org











"rockhound" <user@null.org> wrote in message
news:7fad0c14955cd6276c53398b9f8c125f@news.teranew s.com...

:
: holy fuck puhleeeease. Like yourself, rosie, except for that my
: scorecards currently read zero, in desperation, i just try to make
the
: best use of what *anybody* has to offer.


i don't understand what you are posting?
like me?
read zero?

rosie
(on the DUH side today)

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:46:21 GMT, "rosie" <sorry@toomanyweirdo's.com>
wrote:
>(if only it were that simple for some of us!)

Most good ideas are simple.

I'm told our first job when i find myself confused is to admit it.
'We may have to admit that, temporarily, we have lost all ability to
tell right from wrong.' I used to have to study 'Judge Judy' on tv
(Judge Judy is some sort of televised small claims court judge), as
she was able to cut to the chase in an argument quickly, easily
identifying rationalizations, ie the making of excuses, for conduct
that was really wrong. It's seemed so clear to her what was right in
any given instance. This quality I can only envy, and try to begin to
understand.

If it is true, though, that rationalization is the ancient enemy of
the alcoholic, that we cover up conduct that is wrong with excuses,
that self concern has been our trouble...if we must somehow try to
find and do the will of our creator, learn to care about others in
order to survive, and this is my feeble understanding of AA's premise,
then, being so unfamiliar with it, I try to look for examples of
concern for others. It's just real tricky now in our confusing age,
as so many say they care but they don't. About as tricky as finding
AA in the phone book.

Now, back in the olden days, when things like honor and virtue still
roamed free, the rule was simple - if someone saved your life, you
were forever indebted to them, and you became their servant, and that
is how you repaid that debt. With your life, and nothing less.
Today, we have no-money-down and low interest payment plans. Simple
vs complicated.

So, like, for example within the hard copy sampling of confusion
below, from an AA meeting, that i can very much relate to since
similar arguments go on in my head, as a massive tower of babble, on
and on and on and on and on...talking heads, sound bytes, the six
o'clock news, ford or chevy, often making oblivion look better, I can
try at the very least to look for the ones that appear to give a shit,
ask for strength to point my sorry ass in that direction, and maybe
find some reward of meaning and purpose in life besides myself that
encourages me to get out of bed in the morning.

Sort of a 'fake it till u make it' approach, as I haven't otherwise
got the foggiest clue what a decent human being should look like, let
alone the actual practice of the AA program, and let very much alone
god, if there is one, and to-whom-i-am-not-speaking-today.

fwiw

Simple questions I ask myself as a starting point - does anybody
really care? about what? what concerns them? Wtf has Bill Gates got
to do with any of this?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <NOBR>Meggie1028</NOBR> Sent: 4/27/2004 7:14 AM
At our group concious meeting recently, the topic of members language
was discussed. A person who comes to our group uses quite vulgar
swearing words when sharing round the room. Other members have told me
they avoid the group because they know this person is going to be
there, and do not like the swearing. I have been at other meetings
where this person attends and the language is very much toned down,
usually long time sober members at these other meetings. Group has
thought bout putting up a card saying something like " swearing
often offends it,s absence never does" but no decision taken as yet.
Has any other groups came across this situation? Any comments would
be appreciated. Thanks Peggy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: NoButts Sent: 4/27/2004 9:45 AM
Hello All,
This Topic fell under the heading of another topic with the same
heading.
The topic is Peggy's from Scotland.

Our group has signs on the wall that say Our group frowns on
profanity. It is mentioned in the beginning of the meetings also. That
doesn't stop anyone. It is more overlooked when it comes to the
newcomers. It is expected from people who should know better. I have
seen meetings come to a complete halt when someone starts spewing. The
group's elders usually handle it.
The question I think you have to ask is How Important is it?
I think Michael k had the saying that I liked the best,
No one was ever offended by the absence of profanity

That's my two cents. No Butts......Kenny


From: 24_TESSA_2002 Sent: 4/27/2004 10:35 AM
Mornin' all,

Thanx for the post and welcome Peggy! I like the idea of the sign. A
group conscience is an idea, also. While we don't want to chase
fellows out, toning down vulgarity is a good thing. Vulgarity is
vulgar (LOL) Some fellows in my home group may slip every now and
then, but it is an unspoken respect for each other, that profanity has
it's place, not in a meeting. Especially if there are children
present. Kenny, thanx for your two cents, what a great value! Have a
most respectful and profanity-free 24!!! I'll take another!!!! Tessa



From: astepsister Sent: 4/27/2004 11:58 AM
LOL, Tessa....I like your "vulgarity is vulgar" comment -

From my perspective, I have to say that I choose not to use "colorful"
language -- but this is because I find that when I do, it's often
because I am either too lazy to find "other" descriptive words to use,
or else it's because I am frustrated and angry -- which means I am out
of balance and needing to have a long look at my ol' Self once again.
I hate it when that happens.

Using colorful language doesn't quite sit right with me any longer --
doesn't seem to match my new sense of spirituality, somehow.

I'm wondering how a couple of the Traditions could be applied in this
situation: Tradition One and common welfare, for example...and I'm
wondering if we are really "attracting" new members who might be
first-timers in a meeting, if they face a barrage of words they might
not be accustomed to.

Well, having made my speech, I think I will take my innocent self to
the car and practise some incidental, passive road rage...

Bless ya,
Barbara


From: june25 Sent: 4/27/2004 4:35 PM
Hi Peggy,

In our Groups Conscience it states, " Please refrain from barroom
language." It's spoken at the beginning of all meetings I attend.

Cindy


From: hillbillycanbc Sent: 4/27/2004 5:58 PM
Within AA we have folks from ever walk of life there is. Some will end
up looking up at some and some will be inclined to look down upon
others and still others will look I to I (or eye to eye). I think that
is reflective of the type of personalities within our fellowship. The
principles of our program(including the Traditions and the Concepts)
reflect something far greater and more important. I believe a real
loving spirituality. It is easy to love the loveable and everone that
does exactly what one does.But what of others??? Who ought to be in
controll, manipulate and conive everyone to conform to what ??
Anonimity is the Spiritual Foundation of all our Traditions ever
reminding us to place PRINCIPLES before Personalities. Also I would
strongly suggest that folks read the 12&12. Page 1 of Tradition 1
tells us it is not about conforming to of rules, regulations or even
intimidations by BLEEDING DECONS. We also have a 'Code'>>LOVE AND
TOLERANCE<<< We even have a tool that can help us utilze the code.It
is called the SERENITY PRAYER. You know those 'WORDS' we all recite at
the beginning or end of our meetings. The Great Creator gives us lots
of seemingly unusual opertunities to apply spiritual tools. I would
rather listen to vulgarity than hear that some member drank and died
because he felt rejected by AA members who thought they were better
than him and tried to controll him. BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD goes
who??? What part would a LOVING GOD play??? (really)

GOD GRANT WHO THE WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA



From: wineyolme Sent: 4/27/2004 10:22 PM
<o> </o>

When I came to AA, so full of resentment, every second word was f-this
and f-that. Even the calmer sentences I spoke were filled with them.
If I had felt ostracized because of this, where else would I go? I am
not offended by anyone swearing, etc. How could I be? There were so
many things I wanted to change about myself, but found I was powerless
to do so. I was not only powerless over alcohol; my life was truly
unmanageable, too. Most of us could swear with the best of them.

<o> </o>

The newcomer is the most important person in AA. God, my Higher
Power, keeps me sober because I am willing to pass on what I have been
so freely given to the still suffering alcoholic. The ones of us
who’ve been around for awhile can use those prayers to make spiritual
progress as Hillbilly said. And I don’t know what is in the heart of
another human being, what their motive is. If they are truly trying
help others, their motive may be quite unselfish.

<o> </o>

And though I am not so full of anger, nor as self-pitying as I once
was (spiritual progress) and many of my communications with others are
more coherent because of dealing with a life time of resentments in
the inventory, I do swear when it is necessary to reach out, not down,
to another suffering alcoholic---whether a newcomer at a meeting---or
when helping another begin their inventory so they, too, can remember
all the SOB’s in their lives. The sponsor removes the fear by talking
freely and easily about oneself. We do not wish to shut the door on
our past, for we can see how our experience can benefit others. And
if that takes a little f’n this and f’n that, then so be it.

<o> </o>

Many alcoholics are unable to remember their resentments to the depth
and numbers that we actually had them, like me, so that our
inventories are truly effective. So we tell them about ours, such as
that f’n boss, or that f’n teacher, or those f’n classmates that made
fun of me, or those SOB---mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cops,
and so on. Then that person can admit, ‘Hey, I felt like that, too!’
And, thus set out to write that sh*t list---the list of resentments.
That first part of our inventories.

<o> </o>

Sometimes we may need to swear, to reach that person, to express a
point, because that’s what it took to get through my thick skull. The
language I understood. Some of us are thicker than others, as well
as, sicker than others. What is my motive---to be helpful to others,
or to look down on them? Gotta watch out for that self-righteous ego
of mine. LOL And there is a vast amount of fun about it all.

<o> </o>

In morning prayers I ask how can I best serve Thee; not me? How can I
best serve the alcoholic who still suffers? To what useful purpose
can I be? Because my ass depends upon it! I can’t get anyone
sober---that’s between her/him and their Higher Power. God, my Higher
Power, keeps me sober in the ‘trying’ to help other alcoholics.




From: hillbillycanbc Sent: 4/27/2004 11:39 PM
Very well expressed Winevolme!! I can relate Pal. I do not like to
swear anymore but from time time I still do. And sometimes I think it
is a very useful tool of the heart maybe not of the mind. I like to
believe the program, God as I understand Him and the humble fellowship
in general does understand the Language of the Heart , no matter how
it is expressed.

God GrantWho The Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa.




From: NoButts Sent: 4/27/2004 11:42 PM
Howdy Everyone,
I have a question for Hillbilly and wineyoleme. I'm not stirring
the pot. I don't have any problems with people who use vulgarity. I
think one of the most noticeable signs of growth is when people swear
less and less during their sharing.
However, what about the second Tradition? If a group conscience has
a no profanity sign hung on the wall is it meant as suggested?
In the group I belong to if someone is spewing vulgarities every
time they share. One of the group members will approach them after the
meeting and inform them of what the conscience of the group is. The
same when people are in the hallway having conversations that take
away from the meeting. Or if someone is sharing about their day in a
step meeting. I've been to other meetings where the chair stopped the
meeting to advise people what is acceptable behavior.
Those "rules " were set before I got here. And they came from the
only authority in AA, God, as He expressed himself in the conscience
of the group.
I only know what goes on in this small part of New York. What is
done in the groups you belong to?
.....Kenny




From: wineyolme Sent: 4/28/2004 12:13 AM
As newcomers we walk into a meeting, frightened and feeling
desperately alone---ready to flee at any moment. I would be afraid to
open my mouth to say 'hi', having seen such a 'sign'. Probably would
have fled.

Maybe, a group conscience can promptly admit where they may be wrong.
Who am i here to serve? Me? Or God, as we understood him, and the
alcoholic who is still suffering?

Do you really think anyone had such signs in their homes when the
first few got sober and invited a new person in?

Does the Big Book suggest we put these 'unaccepting signs' out to the
alcoholic?

Or are we to be all inclusive? Never exclusive?

Questions? Prayer, meditation, and self-searching, all together.

Swearing, as i said is not a problem for us, it can be a useful aide.




From: hillbillycanbc Sent: 4/28/2004 8:24 AM
Our leaders are but TRUSTED SERVANTS THEY DO NOT GOVERN.
Does anyone ever lookinto the 12 Concepts as well ,when doing a Group
concsience or just listen to and obey the Bleeding Decons orders and
instructions. That intimidating method happens all over not just in AA
I have seen groups last for years that bragged about never having
business meetings. Everything was ultimately decided by the Bleeding
Decons and his cronies. Everyone around called it so and sos meeting.
He raised his voice and everyone said how high ,untill some folks got
into the Traditions, Concepts and service work that involved them more
with AA as a whole and growing spiritually instead of like a BULLDOG.
Little by little and the result of some humbling experiences things
changed and out came the more true Loving Group Concience. The Good
Can be the Enemy of the BEST. This is not just some little social
club.We are talking about dealing with peoples life and death.
Who in their right mind could or would even attempt to expell someone
or lay out some kind of punishment for breaking YOUR RULES
I would strongly suggest that you maybe study(not just read)
Tradition 1 in the 12 &12 before getting into Tradition 2. There it
talks about Conforming to Spiritual concepts but does not say conform
to anyones RULES. It also implies to us about having a responsablity
to lavish total unconditional love upon our members rights to
think,talk and act as he wishes.




From: Planter Jim Sent: 4/28/2004 8:46 AM
Nearly all the local groups rent meeting space from churches. A
number of them have been kicked out of their space because of the
language and behavior of a few members who insist on their
constitutional right to be offensive. Given the number of church
members who know of the eviction and the reason for it, there's a good
possibility that some of them might one day decide to seek help for a
drinking problem. How many will dismiss AA outright because of what
they know of us....that we are a group of foul mouthed, disrespectful
derelicts.
Years ago almost all AA speakers used the same sentence..."I came
to AA expecting to find a room full of winos and skid row bums, but
instead found a group of ladies and gentlemen..." If not those exact
words, then some just like it. Today, sad to say, people come to us
expecting to find help from ladies and gentlemen, and instead find
insults from barroom rejects.
I have personaly seen more people walk out of a meeting because of
the speaker's foul language than I ever have because of talk of God or
spirituality.
Someone much wiser than me once said that profanity is the tool a
small mind uses to appear larger. Any parent can tell you that
children use it to get attention.
Jim S.




From: 24_TESSA_2002 Sent: 4/28/2004 9:29 AM
Mornin' all,

We have signs, posted in our meeting place. "Live And Let Live"
"Think,Think,Think"...etc. We also have a large banner of the Twelve
Steps And Twelve Traditions, and pictures of Dr. Bob and Bill W. and
"The Serenity Prayer." In my house we have framed pictures of "The
Difference" and "Footprints", and "The Serenity Prayer". As a child I
was taught that swearing is not acceptable in any society. For me,
redirecting my anger and frustration, in a more positive way, rather
than spewing out the "F" word seems to help my children. I rarely
hear a swear word from them. They learn most of them from school,
LOL! I haven't seen a newcomer leave, yet, in a meeting that is
filled with positive reenforcement as opposed to a meeting filled with
negative. Words are powerful. For me, it's not what we say, it's how
we say them. And how we live our daily lives! Have a most awesome 24!
Tessa


From: -anniemac- Sent: 4/28/2004 2:58 PM
I've only been to 2 meetings where it was requested that we refrain
from cursing. Both times I bristled a bit. that ole' "don't tell ME
what to do!" feeling. I did quite a lot of cursing in early sobriety.
I was filled with anger and that was the only way I knew to express
myself. If I had been told that I couldn't curse, I probably would
have said "F* YOU" and walked out.

Now, I don't need to speak that way anymore on a daily basis. Do I
still? Sure, sometimes. And it's a great indicator for me as to the
condition of my emotional and spiritual sobriety.

If there were signs up, at this point in my sobriety I would obey
them....and possibly not return to that group. My prerogative. But
if I had encountered those signs in my first 90 days, oooh, I shudder
to think of how I would have reacted!


From: hillbillycanbc Sent: 4/28/2004 5:11 PM
I was not going to do this but changed my mind.I am going to suggest
that anyone interested check out Crabby Crippy's post with the
inspirational messages.Read the one that says "LETTING GO" and see if
any of it can apply to this Topic. I got a lot out of it myself.But I
also realize it is your head you can do what you want with it.

God Grant Who The Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



From: hillbillycanbc Sent: 4/28/2004 5:14 PM
Hi Tessa and Annie,
I really enjoyed reading both of your responses to this Topic.



From: Meggie1028 Sent: 4/28/2004 5:52 PM
Hello and thanks to you all for the feedback. I would never want to
tell anyone what they can or can not do in AA , many people many ways.
I dont think a sign hanging on a wall, reading that swearing often
offends , its absence doesn not, could be seen as a rule . I think
people who are fuc---g and cun---g should also practice tolerance to
those who dont like listening to it. They too should be willing to go
to any length , and accept other peoples dislike of there choice of
words and right to express their views.I think this is a great site
for getting so many different views , it does put other things into my
head that i hadn,t thought about. It would be boring if we were all
the same. Wishing you all well and keep sober ODAAT. Peggy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From: soberpat Sent: 4/28/2004 6:03 PM
Peggy,

Hello I am Pat and I am an alcoholic from Kentucky (born and raised in
California for 40 years prior) lol

Hell honey if we cannot speak our minds at my home group then we had
better just go back to the bar!!!lol

I am really open-minded about potty mouth talk and so many of our
shares talk about when I was so fuc..ing drunk or when I stole that
fu..ing car and went to jail that fu..ing cop really pissed me off!!!
So to say it simply....we speak our minds at my meeting and are all
adults there so what the FU...!!

Keep in touch and sober ODAAT is my motto in my sobriety!!!

Pat, alcoholic



From: lachance88 Sent: 4/28/2004 6:13 PM
So I have mixed feelings on this topic... There are times (last
night's meeting, for example) when it bothers me.... a young boy was
sharing and every third word was fu**ing this or that...... It so
distracted me from what he was really trying to say that I actually
began counting fu**s..... HOW anal is that? But on the other hand,
when I swear, it's fine

Have a great 24 everyone!!!!

Kathy



From: soberpat Sent: 4/28/2004 6:21 PM
OK Kenny I can also agree with you on that as we have the Beta group
in my Sunday morning meetings and they are sometimes pissed off that
the court has ordered them to AA......but also so many of them are
simply searching for what we have in recovery as well so I just share
and hug them and tell them to come back to this wonderful group of
alkies ODAAT!!!!

Just a little food 4 thought!!!

Pat, alcoholic



From: soberpat Sent: 4/28/2004 6:32 PM
Jim S!!!

Wonderful share ODAAT!!!

Pat



From: perch Sent: 4/28/2004 11:23 PM
But life among Alcoholics Anonymous is more than attending gatherings
and visiting hospitals. Cleaning up old scrapes, helping to settle
family differences, explaining the disinherited son to his irate
parents, lending money and securing jobs for each other, when
justified — these are everyday occurrences. No one is too discredited
or has sunk too low to be welcomed cordially — if he means business.
Social distinctions, petty rivalries and jealousies — these are
laughed out of countenance. Being wrecked in the same vessel, being
restored and united under one God, with hearts and minds attuned to
the welfare of others, the things which matter so much to some people
no longer signify much to them. How could they?


From: hillbillycanbc Sent: 4/29/2004 1:42 AM
Hi Peggy,(and folks)
I thought the message you gave was great food for thought. To work at
something with honesty, willingness and openmindedness, I do agree it
is good to attempt to look at it from as many angles as possible.



From: wineyolme Sent: 4/29/2004 7:36 AM

"For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority---a loving
God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders
are but trusted servants; they do not govern."
-----Tradition Two

.......The group conscience speaks.



From: NoButts Sent: 4/29/2004 8:36 AM
Hillbilly,
Didn't you say if someone says something that drives an alcoholic
out of a meeting that Johnny Barleycorn would bring him/her back? And
wouldn't that include a sign that asks we follow some social behavior
that is pretty much expected in most of society or the world for that
matter?
I get the impression that groups are run differently here than
where you are. Almost every group I have been to has a business
meeting every month. There are no deacons running the show, no people
controlling or manipulating anyone. Rotation of service is followed
pretty strictly here. No so and so's meeting. And the group's
conscience is voted on by the entire group ( or the people who care
enough about AA and show up at the business meeting ) Since I have
been here I have only missed one in the group I belong to. So I
believe the concept on Group Conscience is in tact. And what good
would it be to have a group's conscience if it was not followed? Or
dare I say enforced ?
I am of the belief that page 129 in the 12 x 12 reads more like a
disclaimer. Assuring people no one is going to make anyone stand on
their head or jump through sobriety hoops on fire.
Unity is defined as; An arrangement of parts or material that will
produce a single harmonious design or effect, a group or body formed
by this. Which leads me to believe the First Tradition is about us not
any one person.
I don't think any Tradition takes priority over another. That just
doesn't make sense to me.
But my original question was What do the group's in your area do?

.....Kenny


From: -anniemac- Sent: 4/29/2004 9:50 AM
We have a group conscience that at the close of the meeting, we do NOT
do the "keep coming back, it works if you work it, so work it you're
worth it", (I was told this comes from rehabs and some of the AA folks
think it has no place in AA). However, those who don't agree with the
group decision, without fail, so through the whole little chant even
after the circle has been broken by those of us who don't do it.
Noone enforces that they can't do it. Personally, I chuckle at their
rebelliousness. Typical alkies! We don't, however, have a sign up
that says "Please refrain from reciting the 'keep coming back' chant".
Maybe that would make the difference?


From: Sarge25471 Sent: 4/29/2004 9:55 AM
In the beginning for beginners that is the only way they know how to
communicate. Remember some of them came from the gutter. However,
after a few thousand meetings the vulgar language should be curtailed.
We didn't get drunk overnight getting sober and cleaning up our act
including our potty mouths will take some time. Remember our twelfth
tradition ever reminding us to place principals before personalities.

Sarge25471


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