On 4/10/04 2:33 PM, in article c59hs3$jqo$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

>
> "steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:BC9D9F12.18303%grandpre@ameritech.net...
>> On 4/9/04 2:41 PM, in article
>> P%Cdc.2494$zj3.293@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.ne t, "Julie"
>> <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "M Dean" <BUFALOED@webtv.net> wrote in message
>>> news:5197-4076D8C4-14@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
>>>> Has anyone ever heard of Smart Recovery meetings? If so, how are
> they
>>>> different from AA? Thanks
>>>>
>>> For one thing there are over 450 AA meetings held in Wake County,
> NC each
>>> month while there are less than 10 Smart Recovery meetings in my
> area.
>>> Anyone else like to comment?
>>> Julie
>>
>>
>> a program that emphasizes self and self reliance as a key to
> recovery. the
>> basic principle: our thoughts, how we feel about them and how we
> react to
>> them..finding an alternative action/behavior. a fairly
> straightforward
>> behavioral approach. ('members' are not referred to as alcoholics or
>> addicts.)
>
> It seems to me that AA's programme also aims to change behaviour. I
> think this because in working Step 4, I have come to better understand
> which of my thoughts and behaviours most likely explain why I have so
> often not been able to cope well with life and why I have so often
> disliked myself. These have been my reasons/excuses for drinking and
> for doing other things which I believe have harmed me. Having
> decided these things, I have come to believe that if I do not want to
> stay as I am, I'd not be doing myself any favours if I stopped
> working my recovery programme.
>
> At this point I'm thinking that the purpose of all recovery programmes
> is to change behaviour. If I'm wrong maybe someone will explain why .
>
to me the obvious difference between the two appears to be HP vs. SELF.

"steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:BC9DE9B6.18318%grandpre@ameritech.net...
: On 4/10/04 2:33 PM, in article c59hs3$jqo$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk,
"JB"
: <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
:
: >
: > "steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message

: to me the obvious difference between the two appears to be HP vs.
SELF.
:
:


that is what i understand the difference to be also!

"steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:BC9DE9B6.18318%grandpre@ameritech.net...
> On 4/10/04 2:33 PM, in article c59hs3$jqo$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk,
"JB"
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> > It seems to me that AA's programme also aims to change behaviour.
<snip>

> > At this point I'm thinking that the purpose of all recovery
programmes
> > is to change behaviour. If I'm wrong maybe someone will explain
why .
> >
> to me the obvious difference between the two appears to be HP vs.
SELF.
>
IMO, it's not uncommon for those who dislike a particular programme to
want to focus other's attention only on the elements in it that they
dislike, cannot understand and/or cannot accept. Steve, if you do
not agree that all recovery programmes appear to be aimed at changing
behaviour and that no single programme is likely to suit everyone,
would you care to present a case against this, my personal, view ?

JB

On 4/10/04 6:43 PM, in article c5a0gr$581$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk, "JB"
<JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> "steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:BC9DE9B6.18318%grandpre@ameritech.net...
>> On 4/10/04 2:33 PM, in article c59hs3$jqo$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk,
> "JB"
>> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:
>
>>> It seems to me that AA's programme also aims to change behaviour.
> <snip>
>
>>> At this point I'm thinking that the purpose of all recovery
> programmes
>>> is to change behaviour. If I'm wrong maybe someone will explain
> why .
>>>
>> to me the obvious difference between the two appears to be HP vs.
> SELF.
>>
> IMO, it's not uncommon for those who dislike a particular programme to
> want to focus other's attention only on the elements in it that they
> dislike, cannot understand and/or cannot accept. Steve, if you do
> not agree that all recovery programmes appear to be aimed at changing
> behaviour and that no single programme is likely to suit everyone,
> would you care to present a case against this, my personal, view ?
>
> JB

JB, of course the behaviour (drinking, gambling, and so forth) are the same
negative end result of an 'improperly worked' or half-measured programme.

to me the clear difference seems to be how one, in each recovery programme,
works to avoid the behaviour.

"steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:BC9DF491.18320%grandpre@ameritech.net...
> On 4/10/04 6:43 PM, in article c5a0gr$581$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk,
"JB"
> <JBCatRB@coldman.com> wrote:

> > IMO, it's not uncommon for those who dislike a particular
programme to
> > want to focus other's attention only on the elements in it that
they
> > dislike, cannot understand and/or cannot accept. Steve, if you
do
> > not agree that all recovery programmes appear to be aimed at
changing
> > behaviour and that no single programme is likely to suit
everyone,
> > would you care to present a case against this, my personal, view ?
> >
> > JB
>
> JB, of course the behaviour (drinking, gambling, and so forth) are
the same
> negative end result of an 'improperly worked' or half-measured
programme.

I suspect your comment "half-measured programme" reflects your view of
recovery programmes of which you do not approve. FWIW, I do not have
an axe to grind against any recovery programme because I am neither an
expert on such programmes nor do I think it my place to try to
dissuade anyone from trying any programme that might be helpful to
them.

> to me the clear difference seems to be how one, in each recovery
programme,
> works to avoid the behaviour.
>
<grin>

Do you think it possible that I may already have known that there are
differences and maybe what some of those differences are ?

JB

>>
> <grin>
>
> Do you think it possible that I may already have known that there are
> differences and maybe what some of those differences are ?
>
> JB

the question you should be asking is one that asks if I give a rats ass what
you may or may not already know.

<grin>

"steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:BC9DFD8F.18326%grandpre@ameritech.net...
>
> >>
> > <grin>
> >
> > Do you think it possible that I may already have known that there
are
> > differences and maybe what some of those differences are ?
> >
> > JB
>
> the question you should be asking is one that asks if I give a rats
ass what
> you may or may not already know.
>
> <grin>

Have you heard it said that alcoholics refuse to do what they're
commanded to do ? :^)

JB

In message <c5as6r$lgh$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
writes
>
>"steve grand pre" <grandpre@ameritech.net> wrote in message
>news:BC9DFD8F.18326%grandpre@ameritech.net...
>>
>> >>
>> > <grin>
>> >
>> > Do you think it possible that I may already have known that there
>are
>> > differences and maybe what some of those differences are ?
>> >
>> > JB
>>
>> the question you should be asking is one that asks if I give a rats
>ass what
>> you may or may not already know.
>>
>> <grin>
>
>Have you heard it said that alcoholics refuse to do what they're
>commanded to do ? :^)

Commanded? COMMANDED? By whom, FFS?
--
Jonathan Bratt

"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
news:+m6AKnHowTeAFw+1@aol.com...
> In message <c5as6r$lgh$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
<JBCatRB@coldman.com>
> writes

> >Have you heard it said that alcoholics refuse to do what they're
> >commanded to do ? :^)
>
> Commanded? COMMANDED? By whom, FFS?
> --
> Jonathan Bratt

Dear Johnathan,

Whenever you think I use an inappropriate word, you know, I think,
that it might be possible for you to find an alternative.

All the best

JB

In message <c5bfe9$tp0$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB <JBCatRB@coldman.com>
writes
>"Jonathan Bratt" <jonnybratt@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:+m6AKnHowTeAFw+1@aol.com...
>> In message <c5as6r$lgh$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, JB
><JBCatRB@coldman.com>
>> writes
>
>> >Have you heard it said that alcoholics refuse to do what they're
>> >commanded to do ? :^)
>>
>> Commanded? COMMANDED? By whom, FFS?
>> --
>> Jonathan Bratt
>
>Dear Johnathan,
>
>Whenever you think I use an inappropriate word, you know, I think,
>that it might be possible for you to find an alternative.

I can't know what precisely what it is you mean, lacking telepathic
powers.

Commanded is quite a distinctive word - not much room for mis- or
re-interpretation.

Perhaps you mean recommended or advised - but both of those are wholly
different in meaning from commanded.

Over to you I think.
--
Jonathan Bratt