I met this woman at a cafe with a friend I met recently in AA. There was a
debate on what to do and we decided to go to the open mic at Shakespear's,
a local brew pub. We had gone to Kraftbrau, another brew pub the night
before without a problem, so I had no major problem with this. When we
arrived there I ordered a root beer and my companions ordered some other
sodas. The woman and I chatted for a while, but my friend never seemed to
jump into conversation. Later the woman ordered a beer and my friend from
AA ordered a cider. This made me nervous because I had no idea what he is
like drunk, but obviously he quit drinking for some reason. I ordered a
non-alcoholic beer. We stayed there for hours. I am not sure if my
friends ordered more alcohol. The woman did order one more beer before we
left. After stopping off for a 6 pack for her we went to her house. She
put the beer in the fridge and took out what I believe was her third and
last beer for the night. She offered him some rum. I think she was
thinking he'd take a shot. He poured it into a wine glass and grabbed a
beer to chase it. At one point he stepped out onto the terrace to smoke
and the woman and I stayed inside to talk. She mentioned he kept trying
to ask her out to the movies all night. Originally she took him for being
slow, but she said is starting to see the problem. We arranged to meet
later, though I get stood up alot so we will see how this goes. We
decided it was time for us to go, and my friend and I headed out the door.
After I stepped out he quickly closed the door behind me. I was unsure
exactly what to do, but decided to wait a few seconds before I went back
in for him. Indeed this turned out to be ok and he stepped out a few
moments later. I think he asked her out again and was shot down. Anyway
this is my story of the period before I slept last.

I want to make some friends I can go to the breweries, listen to music and
not drink with. But I also want to be able to meet moderate drinkers,
especially pretty women. This is the first guy I can get to go out with
me from AA and I blow his sobriety. Actually he would have put himself in
this situation anyway. When he woke up on my couch in the morning I asked
him if he wanted some hard cider. It had been fermenting in the fridge
since september and I was curious as to whether it was safe. Being a
little bitter I wasn't very compassionate and was wondering if he'd drink
again. He did, but he didn't go blind. I was glad I wasn't going to get
sued and had figured he'd drink again. The funny thing is he'd not drank
for twice as long as me, but his second time out at a bar and he was
drinking. I need to find a way of meeting people locally other than AA.
Thus far I have had trouble finding someone I feel comfortable going out
with. Mainly AA members are just people I see during meetings. It isn't
much of a fellowship if it doesn't extend beyond the places we gather.

"Gary Hunter" <angryfluff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.04.07.20.51.42.256177@sbcglobal.net. ..
> I met this woman at a cafe with a friend I met recently in AA. There
was a
> debate on what to do and we decided to go to the open mic at
Shakespear's,
> a local brew pub. We had gone to Kraftbrau, another brew pub the
night
> before without a problem, so I had no major problem with this. When
we
> arrived there I ordered a root beer and my companions ordered some
other
> sodas. The woman and I chatted for a while, but my friend never
seemed to
> jump into conversation. Later the woman ordered a beer and my friend
from
> AA ordered a cider. This made me nervous because I had no idea what
he is
> like drunk, but obviously he quit drinking for some reason. I
ordered a
> non-alcoholic beer. We stayed there for hours. I am not sure if my
> friends ordered more alcohol. The woman did order one more beer
before we
> left. After stopping off for a 6 pack for her we went to her house.
She
> put the beer in the fridge and took out what I believe was her third
and
> last beer for the night. She offered him some rum. I think she was
> thinking he'd take a shot. He poured it into a wine glass and
grabbed a
> beer to chase it. At one point he stepped out onto the terrace to
smoke
> and the woman and I stayed inside to talk. She mentioned he kept
trying
> to ask her out to the movies all night. Originally she took him for
being
> slow, but she said is starting to see the problem. We arranged to
meet
> later, though I get stood up alot so we will see how this goes. We
> decided it was time for us to go, and my friend and I headed out the
door.
> After I stepped out he quickly closed the door behind me. I was
unsure
> exactly what to do, but decided to wait a few seconds before I went
back
> in for him. Indeed this turned out to be ok and he stepped out a few
> moments later. I think he asked her out again and was shot down.
Anyway
> this is my story of the period before I slept last.
>
> I want to make some friends I can go to the breweries, listen to
music and
> not drink with. But I also want to be able to meet moderate
drinkers,
> especially pretty women. This is the first guy I can get to go out
with
> me from AA and I blow his sobriety. Actually he would have put
himself in
> this situation anyway. When he woke up on my couch in the morning I
asked
> him if he wanted some hard cider. It had been fermenting in the
fridge
> since september and I was curious as to whether it was safe. Being
a
> little bitter I wasn't very compassionate and was wondering if he'd
drink
> again. He did, but he didn't go blind. I was glad I wasn't going
to get
> sued and had figured he'd drink again. The funny thing is he'd not
drank
> for twice as long as me, but his second time out at a bar and he was
> drinking. I need to find a way of meeting people locally other than
AA.
> Thus far I have had trouble finding someone I feel comfortable going
out
> with. Mainly AA members are just people I see during meetings. It
isn't
> much of a fellowship if it doesn't extend beyond the places we
gather.


Trying to be a friend to get friends in AA was, for me, like walking a
tightrope between being developing and maintaining integrity, and
becoming a hypocritical arse licker.

Coming to terms with the reality that fellowship can be vastly
different from friendship, I even looked up the dictionary, in
despair. (Incidentally, the Oxford dictionary arguably applies more
formality to the word "fellowship" than American dictionaries do)

Hindsight has shown the best advice given me at that time was, "When
you're hurting, take the steps" After all is said and done, the
changes implicit in the steps certainly improved my chances of being a
truer friend.

More than a decade since regular AA attendance, I still treasure
reasonably regular phone calls/emails, and sober coffee lounge, or
bar, rendezvous, with folk I met in AA. I have also developed a (for
me) remarkable tolerance for those that remain *not* sober.

In other words, secondary to taking the steps, I left the AA
organisation behind, while keeping the friends.

Bob

"Gary Hunter" <angryfluff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
newsan.2004.04.07.20.51.42.256177@sbcglobal.net. ..
> I met this woman at a cafe with a friend I met recently in AA. There was a
> debate on what to do and we decided to go to the open mic at Shakespear's,
> a local brew pub. We had gone to Kraftbrau, another brew pub the night
> before without a problem, so I had no major problem with this. When we
> arrived there I ordered a root beer and my companions ordered some other
> sodas. The woman and I chatted for a while, but my friend never seemed to
> jump into conversation. Later the woman ordered a beer and my friend from
> AA ordered a cider. This made me nervous because I had no idea what he is
> like drunk, but obviously he quit drinking for some reason. I ordered a
> non-alcoholic beer. We stayed there for hours. I am not sure if my
> friends ordered more alcohol. The woman did order one more beer before we
> left. After stopping off for a 6 pack for her we went to her house. She
> put the beer in the fridge and took out what I believe was her third and
> last beer for the night. She offered him some rum. I think she was
> thinking he'd take a shot. He poured it into a wine glass and grabbed a
> beer to chase it. At one point he stepped out onto the terrace to smoke
> and the woman and I stayed inside to talk. She mentioned he kept trying
> to ask her out to the movies all night. Originally she took him for being
> slow, but she said is starting to see the problem. We arranged to meet
> later, though I get stood up alot so we will see how this goes. We
> decided it was time for us to go, and my friend and I headed out the door.
> After I stepped out he quickly closed the door behind me. I was unsure
> exactly what to do, but decided to wait a few seconds before I went back
> in for him. Indeed this turned out to be ok and he stepped out a few
> moments later. I think he asked her out again and was shot down. Anyway
> this is my story of the period before I slept last.
>
> I want to make some friends I can go to the breweries, listen to music and
> not drink with. But I also want to be able to meet moderate drinkers,
> especially pretty women.
>
We can go anywhere if our motive is spiritually correct. I've walked into
crack houses to drag out an AA member and take them to a treatment center
(no I wasn't alone). I'm afraid your motives are not spiritually correct,
so hanging out at bars is risking your sobriety and your life.
Forget women, masturbate more often, and when the time is right HP will send
you the right person to be with.
Julie
>
>
>This is the first guy I can get to go out with
> me from AA and I blow his sobriety. Actually he would have put himself in
> this situation anyway. When he woke up on my couch in the morning I asked
> him if he wanted some hard cider. It had been fermenting in the fridge
> since september and I was curious as to whether it was safe. Being a
> little bitter I wasn't very compassionate and was wondering if he'd drink
> again. He did, but he didn't go blind. I was glad I wasn't going to get
> sued and had figured he'd drink again. The funny thing is he'd not drank
> for twice as long as me, but his second time out at a bar and he was
> drinking. I need to find a way of meeting people locally other than AA.
> Thus far I have had trouble finding someone I feel comfortable going out
> with. Mainly AA members are just people I see during meetings. It isn't
> much of a fellowship if it doesn't extend beyond the places we gather.

"Robert McGregor" <robert_mcgregor@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:c5288u$2niacl$1@ID-49289.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Gary Hunter" <angryfluff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> newsan.2004.04.07.20.51.42.256177@sbcglobal.net. ..
> > I met this woman at a cafe with a friend I met recently in AA. There
> was a
> > debate on what to do and we decided to go to the open mic at
> Shakespear's,
> > a local brew pub. We had gone to Kraftbrau, another brew pub the
> night
> > before without a problem, so I had no major problem with this. When
> we
> > arrived there I ordered a root beer and my companions ordered some
> other
> > sodas. The woman and I chatted for a while, but my friend never
> seemed to
> > jump into conversation. Later the woman ordered a beer and my friend
> from
> > AA ordered a cider. This made me nervous because I had no idea what
> he is
> > like drunk, but obviously he quit drinking for some reason. I
> ordered a
> > non-alcoholic beer. We stayed there for hours. I am not sure if my
> > friends ordered more alcohol. The woman did order one more beer
> before we
> > left. After stopping off for a 6 pack for her we went to her house.
> She
> > put the beer in the fridge and took out what I believe was her third
> and
> > last beer for the night. She offered him some rum. I think she was
> > thinking he'd take a shot. He poured it into a wine glass and
> grabbed a
> > beer to chase it. At one point he stepped out onto the terrace to
> smoke
> > and the woman and I stayed inside to talk. She mentioned he kept
> trying
> > to ask her out to the movies all night. Originally she took him for
> being
> > slow, but she said is starting to see the problem. We arranged to
> meet
> > later, though I get stood up alot so we will see how this goes. We
> > decided it was time for us to go, and my friend and I headed out the
> door.
> > After I stepped out he quickly closed the door behind me. I was
> unsure
> > exactly what to do, but decided to wait a few seconds before I went
> back
> > in for him. Indeed this turned out to be ok and he stepped out a few
> > moments later. I think he asked her out again and was shot down.
> Anyway
> > this is my story of the period before I slept last.
> >
> > I want to make some friends I can go to the breweries, listen to
> music and
> > not drink with. But I also want to be able to meet moderate
> drinkers,
> > especially pretty women. This is the first guy I can get to go out
> with
> > me from AA and I blow his sobriety. Actually he would have put
> himself in
> > this situation anyway. When he woke up on my couch in the morning I
> asked
> > him if he wanted some hard cider. It had been fermenting in the
> fridge
> > since september and I was curious as to whether it was safe. Being
> a
> > little bitter I wasn't very compassionate and was wondering if he'd
> drink
> > again. He did, but he didn't go blind. I was glad I wasn't going
> to get
> > sued and had figured he'd drink again. The funny thing is he'd not
> drank
> > for twice as long as me, but his second time out at a bar and he was
> > drinking. I need to find a way of meeting people locally other than
> AA.
> > Thus far I have had trouble finding someone I feel comfortable going
> out
> > with. Mainly AA members are just people I see during meetings. It
> isn't
> > much of a fellowship if it doesn't extend beyond the places we
> gather.
>
>
> Trying to be a friend to get friends in AA was, for me, like walking a
> tightrope between being developing and maintaining integrity, and
> becoming a hypocritical arse licker.
>
> Coming to terms with the reality that fellowship can be vastly
> different from friendship, I even looked up the dictionary, in
> despair. (Incidentally, the Oxford dictionary arguably applies more
> formality to the word "fellowship" than American dictionaries do)
>
> Hindsight has shown the best advice given me at that time was, "When
> you're hurting, take the steps" After all is said and done, the
> changes implicit in the steps certainly improved my chances of being a
> truer friend.
>
> More than a decade since regular AA attendance, I still treasure
> reasonably regular phone calls/emails, and sober coffee lounge, or
> bar, rendezvous, with folk I met in AA. I have also developed a (for
> me) remarkable tolerance for those that remain *not* sober.
>
>
Robert, will you please re-read what you just wrote above. Your
insightfulness and fellowship is desperately needed by those who are just
finding AA. I had a horrible time tying to trust anyone when I first came
to AA and becoming a part of the fellowship was very difficult for me.
You've got me crying just remembering it. You have so much to give the
newcomer Robert. Please reconsider your discussion about attending
meetings.
you're a very special person,
Julie
>
> In other words, secondary to taking the steps, I left the AA
> organisation behind, while keeping the friends.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

"Julie" <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:AV1dc.982$zj3.704@newsread3.news.atl.earthlin k.net:




>>
> We can go anywhere if our motive is spiritually correct. I've walked
> into crack houses to drag out an AA member and take them to a
> treatment center (no I wasn't alone). I'm afraid your motives are not
> spiritually correct, so hanging out at bars is risking your sobriety
> and your life. Forget women, masturbate more often, and when the time
> is right HP will send you the right person to be with.
> Julie

I was yold that it was ok to have all the sex I wanted during my first year
of sobriety. If all went well, the next year I could look for a partner if
I wanted to.

Jeff


--
Live simply so that others may simply live.

Gary Hunter wrote:

> I met this woman at a cafe with a friend I met recently in AA. There was a
> debate on what to do and we decided to go to the open mic at Shakespear's,
> a local brew pub. We had gone to Kraftbrau, another brew pub the night
> before without a problem, so I had no major problem with this. When we
> arrived there I ordered a root beer and my companions ordered some other
> sodas. The woman and I chatted for a while, but my friend never seemed to
> jump into conversation. Later the woman ordered a beer and my friend from
> AA ordered a cider. This made me nervous because I had no idea what he is
> like drunk, but obviously he quit drinking for some reason. I ordered a
> non-alcoholic beer. We stayed there for hours. I am not sure if my
> friends ordered more alcohol. The woman did order one more beer before we
> left. After stopping off for a 6 pack for her we went to her house. She
> put the beer in the fridge and took out what I believe was her third and
> last beer for the night. She offered him some rum. I think she was
> thinking he'd take a shot. He poured it into a wine glass and grabbed a
> beer to chase it. At one point he stepped out onto the terrace to smoke
> and the woman and I stayed inside to talk. She mentioned he kept trying
> to ask her out to the movies all night. Originally she took him for being
> slow, but she said is starting to see the problem. We arranged to meet
> later, though I get stood up alot so we will see how this goes. We
> decided it was time for us to go, and my friend and I headed out the door.
> After I stepped out he quickly closed the door behind me. I was unsure
> exactly what to do, but decided to wait a few seconds before I went back
> in for him. Indeed this turned out to be ok and he stepped out a few
> moments later. I think he asked her out again and was shot down. Anyway
> this is my story of the period before I slept last.
>
> I want to make some friends I can go to the breweries, listen to music and
> not drink with. But I also want to be able to meet moderate drinkers,
> especially pretty women. This is the first guy I can get to go out with
> me from AA and I blow his sobriety. Actually he would have put himself in
> this situation anyway. When he woke up on my couch in the morning I asked
> him if he wanted some hard cider. It had been fermenting in the fridge
> since september and I was curious as to whether it was safe. Being a
> little bitter I wasn't very compassionate and was wondering if he'd drink
> again. He did, but he didn't go blind. I was glad I wasn't going to get
> sued and had figured he'd drink again. The funny thing is he'd not drank
> for twice as long as me, but his second time out at a bar and he was
> drinking. I need to find a way of meeting people locally other than AA.
> Thus far I have had trouble finding someone I feel comfortable going out
> with. Mainly AA members are just people I see during meetings. It isn't
> much of a fellowship if it doesn't extend beyond the places we gather.

Dear Gary,
If you can manage to get some time under your belt, you will surely find
that there is lot's to do, and many women to meet outside of bars and
brew pubs. I don't know the numbers, but believe me, not many
alcoholics that are serious about recovery hang out in bars, and of the
ones that do, a large percentage of them drink again. How serious are
you about your sobriety? Do you want to risk the odds? The choice is
yours.

Tono

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:41:17 +0000, Tono wrote:

> Dear Gary,
> If you can manage to get some time under your belt, you will surely find
> that there is lot's to do, and many women to meet outside of bars and
> brew pubs. I don't know the numbers, but believe me, not many
> alcoholics that are serious about recovery hang out in bars, and of the
> ones that do, a large percentage of them drink again. How serious are
> you about your sobriety? Do you want to risk the odds? The choice is
> yours.

I simply have no more interest in drinking. I know I am never going to
again and never even feel tempted. It's not like I crave alcohol as I
truely believe the temporary happiness is no longer worth the madness it
brings. Furthurmore the temporary happiness became rarer. It's not that
I am not serious about quiting drinking. It is just that I have quit. I
don't think, "a beer would be nice about now," ever when I am in a
brewery. Honestly the closest thought to it I've had to it is, "I wish I
would have come here before I quit drinking." However I don't ever want
to be drunk again so it simply isn't tempting to drink. It just makes me
too mentally unstable. As such I am going to get on with my life now.
Just because I used to do something drunk, doesn't mean I am going to give
it up. This includes disk golf, local music and the arts. In my city
they often have drinking on the site of the exhibition. I have problem
relating to many of the alcoholics I meet because I don't obsess about
alcohol. It can make the AA meetings rather uninteresting. As far as
women go, I am not really looking for romance or sex. All my life a good
percentage of my friends have been female. I just had some from high
school stop by my house tonight. It is weird to alot of gen-xers and
post-xers that older generations tend to hang out with the same sexes. I
do like to look at pretty women, and if a friend I am attracted to wants
to have sex with me, bonus, but that isn't my goal either. Otherwise I
wouldn't have had so many unattractive, and gay (usually not both despite
the sterotypes) female friends. Certainly I am not searching for a
romantic relationship.

I guess the other thing is I am not going to stop hanging around moderate
drinkers. Too many interesting people imbibe occasionally. And to be
quite honest I find most alcoholics, dry or sober, to be to crazy for me
to deal with on top of my own fading madness, so I can't just hang out
with AA people. However it is nice to have one person with me who doesn't
drink when I don't go out. I think most people at AA still love alcohol.
I don't.

"Julie" <Julie919@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:i02dc.991$zj3.653@newsread3.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
>
>Please reconsider your discussion about attending
> meetings.
> >

The *only* requirement for AA membership being a desire to stop
drinking, amongst other considerations, I have neither need nor
intention to drink again, merely to qualify.

Bob

:................. You have so much to give the
: newcomer Robert. Please reconsider your discussion about
attending
: meetings.
: you're a very special person,
: Julie
: >
: >

i totally agree with you julie............................

"Gary Hunter" <angryfluff@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
:
: I simply have no more interest in drinking. I know I am never
going to
: again and never even feel tempted. It's not like I crave alcohol
as I
: truely believe the temporary happiness is no longer worth the
madness it
: brings.


each and everytime i quit drinking, that is EXACTLY how i
thought......................it was only after i quit this last
time,(1982) that i realized that i WAS NOT treating the alcoholism,
but rather just putting the plug in the jug!
each and everytime, it eventually failed me.

if you are NOT an alcoholic, your attitude about drinking should
serve you well.

for instance, i have seen NON-ALCOHOLICS quit drinking, and stay
quit for medical reasons, and they were fine.

whatever you find that works for you, is the direction you should
take, imo.
if we in AA can help, be sure to ask!
best to you,
rosie




Furthurmore the temporary happiness became rarer. It's not that
: I am not serious about quiting drinking. It is just that I have
quit. I
: don't think, "a beer would be nice about now," ever when I am in a
: brewery. Honestly the closest thought to it I've had to it is, "I
wish I
: would have come here before I quit drinking." However I don't
ever want
: to be drunk again so it simply isn't tempting to drink. It just
makes me
: too mentally unstable. As such I am going to get on with my life
now.
: Just because I used to do something drunk, doesn't mean I am going
to give
: it up. This includes disk golf, local music and the arts. In my
city
: they often have drinking on the site of the exhibition. I have
problem
: relating to many of the alcoholics I meet because I don't obsess
about
: alcohol. It can make the AA meetings rather uninteresting. As
far as
: women go, I am not really looking for romance or sex. All my life
a good
: percentage of my friends have been female. I just had some from
high
: school stop by my house tonight. It is weird to alot of gen-xers
and
: post-xers that older generations tend to hang out with the same
sexes. I
: do like to look at pretty women, and if a friend I am attracted to
wants
: to have sex with me, bonus, but that isn't my goal either.
Otherwise I
: wouldn't have had so many unattractive, and gay (usually not both
despite
: the sterotypes) female friends. Certainly I am not searching for
a
: romantic relationship.
:
: I guess the other thing is I am not going to stop hanging around
moderate
: drinkers. Too many interesting people imbibe occasionally. And
to be
: quite honest I find most alcoholics, dry or sober, to be to crazy
for me
: to deal with on top of my own fading madness, so I can't just hang
out
: with AA people. However it is nice to have one person with me who
doesn't
: drink when I don't go out. I think most people at AA still love
alcohol.
: I don't.