12 steps are a reasonable approach to improving ones self but it provides
little to know value in actually staying "off" the stuff.

12 step programs end up being full of people with diminished life
expectations! Saying things like although my wife left, I got fired from my
job, I am broke, homeless, and family wont talk to me "ITS ALL GOOD BECAUSE
I AM SOBER"/

After 5 years clean seeing someone who is sharing a 2 bedroom apartment and
working 12 hours a week and is satisfied with this ....does not equal a
successful program
"JanAust" <jan.volkmer@removethis.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97D882F63B0F4bvolkmerbigpondnetau@203.16.2 14.243...
> "dan mcgown" <dmcgown@adelphia.net> wrote in
> news:3I2dnTONCt_QVzLfRVn-sg@adelphia.com:
>
>>
>> "The Glass Prison" <glassprison51@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1118813333.837757.38360@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
>>> OK! That fucking does it! Enough of this shit!
>>>
>>> If you are a member and believer of any 12-step program, YOU ARE NOT
>>> or WILL NEVER BE MY FRIEND. I dislike 12-step groupers and it's taken
>>> me
>>
>> I can't begin to tell you how devastated we all are by your
>> rejection.
>> How will we ever go on? Seriously, instead of just screaming and
>> calling names, why don't you try to get control of the anger so that
>> you can rationally explain specifically what it is that has made you
>> so angry.
>> If you really want to make your point effectively, yelling won't
>> convince anyone while a reasoned explanation might pursuade someone to
>> agree with you.
>>
>>
>>
>
> i do agree with you go out and buy ten foils of smack one bottle of scotch
> and one hundred clonazapam