"Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gkdoq35obp6esatta6skjrcni6nembsp6l@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 07:02:40 GMT, "Muddle" <berniesimmons@epix.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tim and Lisa" <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>>news:47ab431e$0$6162$4c368faf@roadrunner.com.. .
>>>
>>> "RonG" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
>>> news3Hqj.44341$m6.24249@newsfe18.lga...
>>>>
>>>> "Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:nv8lq3t72rhbs5a46ns6ul0gov9q20afq5@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:03:53 -0600, "Rob D."
>>>>> <fr.robert.yourfrustrations.dye@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I would think dating someone in the program best avoided, unless BOTH
>>>>>>have a good strong recovery and quite a bit of time in...and even
>>>>>>then,
>>>>>>it might not be so savvy...
>>>>>
>>>>> Why ... do the odds go up dating someone outside the program...seems
>>>>> to me the chance of a relationship lasting are about 50/50 ...no
>>>>> matter who is or isn't in the program or even if both ain't in the
>>>>> program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Time in...what the hell does that have to do with anything...unless of
>>>>> course one makes the assumption time in is suppose to translate into
>>>>> being 'better' or stonger or whatever.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here we are involved in a program (those of us involved in a program)
>>>>> where we talk of being beyond human aid....etc. ... then there's a
>>>>> portion of the program where one is told we treat sex like any other
>>>>> problem...do I put aside dealing with anything and everything for a
>>>>> year...just because some savvy A-hole says so... I don't think so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am of the understanding it's an individual deal based on each
>>>>> individuals spiritual condition...some will find for them they can
>>>>> while other's will find they can't...and if they can't then they best
>>>>> get to work on their spiritual condition...some will find they can but
>>>>> don't care to...that's fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
>>>>> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
>>>>> what it suggests you do...if ya fall short ...get back up and make it
>>>>> right...If one is honest, unselfish, and not causing any harm ...in
>>>>> fit spiritual condition...fuck it go for it...after all if it's based
>>>>> on avoidance the chances are it's doomed...base it on a fit spiritual
>>>>> condition ... then if it works out or if it falls apart ...you are
>>>>> still standing ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>>>>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>>>>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>>>>> lives.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
>>>> jerk a few people around.
>>>>
>>>> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
>>>> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in
>>>> your
>>>> life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put the
>>>> bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up
>>>> decisions
>>>> because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how to make
>>>> good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it took a
>>>> while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life that did
>>>> not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse. No, I am
>>>> not
>>>> trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I made were
>>>> sound
>>>> but the improvement was dramatically better and took time. If nothing
>>>> else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a few people
>>>> before
>>>> I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And from my experience
>>>> and that of others I have seen over the years, most are not clear
>>>> headed
>>>> enough, or wise enough to think through an issue without booze for some
>>>> time before they can begin to trust their thinking as to making sound
>>>> judgments. How many do you think are able to immediately break their
>>>> self
>>>> centered acting on impulse way of life right after they get sober? Not
>>>> too many I suspect.
>>>>
>>>> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
>>>> business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
>>>> did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
>>>> example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
>>>> me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
>>>> drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
>>>> formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
>>>> shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected
>>>> that
>>>> I thought out my revenge while drunk.
>>>>
>>>> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
>>>> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
>>>> to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on
>>>> out
>>>> of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard and
>>>> fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good suggestion.
>>>> Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober for a year.
>>>> Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions as if you
>>>> are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to insure that
>>>> you won't remain sober.
>>>>
>>>> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
>>>> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>>>>
>>>> Salt and pepper
>>>> RonG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well for me that sound decision started on the day in Aug 16th 2001 and
>>> I
>>> knew if I went to bed sober I was going to wake up sober. It worked fur
>>> me
>>> in the begining. I think they can get honest from day one, it's the
>>> unselfishness that takes time...
>>>
>>> Timburr
>>>
>>
>>There are many happy sober couples in AA, just as in the real world. The
>>problems with relationships within AA are twofold. One is people just
>>sobering up need to pull their head out of their ass before starting a
>>relationship and the other is many old timers, male and female, doing what
>>I've always heard called 13th stepping or starting relationships with
>>newcomers when that's the last thing these people need. If two people
>>have
>>a decent program going and want to hook up that's fine as far as I'm
>>concerned and the relationships usually work out well. I've seen more
>>couples divorce, because one is in the program and one isn't than if both
>>are. Having a major portion of your life that a significant other can't
>>really participate in and will never understand is often a problem.
>>
>
> Damn Muddle....you are making too much sense.

Being an active member of Al-Anon would give a person a LOT greater capacity
for "understanding" the alcoholic, drunk or sober.