On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 07:02:40 GMT, "Muddle" <berniesimmons@epix.net>
wrote:

>
>"Tim and Lisa" <tworkman1@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:47ab431e$0$6162$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "RonG" <ron@network12.com> wrote in message
>> news3Hqj.44341$m6.24249@newsfe18.lga...
>>>
>>> "Tex" <twizzard@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:nv8lq3t72rhbs5a46ns6ul0gov9q20afq5@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:03:53 -0600, "Rob D."
>>>> <fr.robert.yourfrustrations.dye@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I would think dating someone in the program best avoided, unless BOTH
>>>>>have a good strong recovery and quite a bit of time in...and even then,
>>>>>it might not be so savvy...
>>>>
>>>> Why ... do the odds go up dating someone outside the program...seems
>>>> to me the chance of a relationship lasting are about 50/50 ...no
>>>> matter who is or isn't in the program or even if both ain't in the
>>>> program.
>>>>
>>>> Time in...what the hell does that have to do with anything...unless of
>>>> course one makes the assumption time in is suppose to translate into
>>>> being 'better' or stonger or whatever.
>>>>
>>>> Here we are involved in a program (those of us involved in a program)
>>>> where we talk of being beyond human aid....etc. ... then there's a
>>>> portion of the program where one is told we treat sex like any other
>>>> problem...do I put aside dealing with anything and everything for a
>>>> year...just because some savvy A-hole says so... I don't think so.
>>>>
>>>> I am of the understanding it's an individual deal based on each
>>>> individuals spiritual condition...some will find for them they can
>>>> while other's will find they can't...and if they can't then they best
>>>> get to work on their spiritual condition...some will find they can but
>>>> don't care to...that's fine.
>>>>
>>>> Fuck the Salt & Peppers, the not enough or too much...the not the
>>>> right kind...form your own ideal and go back over your past and do
>>>> what it suggests you do...if ya fall short ...get back up and make it
>>>> right...If one is honest, unselfish, and not causing any harm ...in
>>>> fit spiritual condition...fuck it go for it...after all if it's based
>>>> on avoidance the chances are it's doomed...base it on a fit spiritual
>>>> condition ... then if it works out or if it falls apart ...you are
>>>> still standing ...
>>>>
>>>> I guess one can get the idea I don't think much of invisable arbitrary
>>>> timecharts passed on by 'savvy' fuckheads...especially the human one's
>>>> when it states *god* (hp, gp, doornob, etc.) alone can judge our sex
>>>> lives.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you are missing the whole point here or you are just trying to
>>> jerk a few people around.
>>>
>>> How sharp a tack were you when you first got sober and how long did it
>>> take you to start being able to make sound decisions about issues in your
>>> life or new issues? Maybe it only took you a few days after you put the
>>> bottle down. After years of drinking and making many fucked up decisions
>>> because of my drinking and to a great extent, not learning how to make
>>> good decisions in my life because the booze got in the way, it took a
>>> while for me to begin to be able to make decisions in my life that did
>>> not revolve around booze and were acted upon out of impulse. No, I am not
>>> trying to say that once I got sober, all the decisions I made were sound
>>> but the improvement was dramatically better and took time. If nothing
>>> else, before I made some major decision, to run it by a few people before
>>> I jumped in as I always did when I was drinking. And from my experience
>>> and that of others I have seen over the years, most are not clear headed
>>> enough, or wise enough to think through an issue without booze for some
>>> time before they can begin to trust their thinking as to making sound
>>> judgments. How many do you think are able to immediately break their self
>>> centered acting on impulse way of life right after they get sober? Not
>>> too many I suspect.
>>>
>>> One of the discoveries that I made about myself and this thinking
>>> business was how big a part booze played in many of my decisions that I
>>> did not realize booze had anything to do with what I decided. For
>>> example. Something would happen between me and someone which would piss
>>> me off. I would not do anything about the issue at the time, but while
>>> drinking, I would "think" about the incident and over some time I would
>>> formulate my revenge while I was drunk. At some point I would take my
>>> shot at this person and being "sober" at the time, I never connected that
>>> I thought out my revenge while drunk.
>>>
>>> No one can predict the future as you point out about the relationship
>>> business. But in the beginning of sobriety, I think it is wise to learn
>>> to put off any major decisions that we are normally used to acting on out
>>> of impulse as we did when we were drinking. There is nothing hard and
>>> fast about the one year deal but it does seem like a good suggestion.
>>> Most people who start out in sobriety, don't make it sober for a year.
>>> Complicating one's success in staying sober making decisions as if you
>>> are still drinking when you don't have to, is a good way to insure that
>>> you won't remain sober.
>>>
>>> How long do you figure that it takes a person to get honest with
>>> themselves and unselfish when they are starting to get sober?
>>>
>>> Salt and pepper
>>> RonG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well for me that sound decision started on the day in Aug 16th 2001 and I
>> knew if I went to bed sober I was going to wake up sober. It worked fur me
>> in the begining. I think they can get honest from day one, it's the
>> unselfishness that takes time...
>>
>> Timburr
>>
>
>There are many happy sober couples in AA, just as in the real world. The
>problems with relationships within AA are twofold. One is people just
>sobering up need to pull their head out of their ass before starting a
>relationship and the other is many old timers, male and female, doing what
>I've always heard called 13th stepping or starting relationships with
>newcomers when that's the last thing these people need. If two people have
>a decent program going and want to hook up that's fine as far as I'm
>concerned and the relationships usually work out well. I've seen more
>couples divorce, because one is in the program and one isn't than if both
>are. Having a major portion of your life that a significant other can't
>really participate in and will never understand is often a problem.
>

Damn Muddle....you are making too much sense.