spiritual




spir·i·tu·al [ spírrichoo ?l ]


adjective

1. of soul: relating to the soul or spirit, usually in
contrast to material things


2. of religion: relating to religious or sacred things
rather than worldly things


3. temperamentally or intellectually akin: connected by an
affinity of the mind, spirit, or temperament
spiritual mother of the young artist


4. refined: showing great refinement and concern with the
higher things in life





re·li·gion [ ri líjj?n ] (plural re·li·gions)


noun

1. beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and
opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or
deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life


2. system: an institutionalized or personal
system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine


3. personal beliefs or values: a set of
strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by




There is a difference






















Encarta® World English Dictionary [North American Edition] © & (P)2005
Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by
Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "wozza" <wozza96@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.addiction.alcoholism
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: Jews and the 12-step program


>> "wozza" <wozza96@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:42b68d46$0$13943$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>> "rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iuite.16267$lI2.7345@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>> > RELIGION is for those who are afraid of hell..................
>>> > SPIRITUALITY is for those who have been there!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > imo, AA is not a religion.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, your opinion counts for zilch, but the opinions of are
>> worth
>>> taking notice.
>>>
>>> A.A. claims that it is a "spiritual" organization, and not
>> "religious", and
>>> not a religion, but there is no great difference between the words
>>> "religious" and "spiritual." The distinction is artificial -- just
>> another
>>> deceptive word game.
>>>
>>> In the case of Grandberg v. Ashland County, a 1984 Federal 7th Circuit
>> Court
>>> ruling concerning judicially-mandated A.A. attendance, the court said:
>>>
>>> Alcoholics Anonymous materials and the testimony of the witness
>> established
>>> beyond a doubt that religious activities, as defined in constitutional
>> law,
>>> were a part of the treatment program. The distinction between religion
>> and
>>> spirituality is meaningless, and serves merely to confuse the issue.
>>> -- Wisconsin's District Judge John Shabaz
>>>
>>> All of these courts have ruled that Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion
>> or
>>> engages in religious activities:
>>>
>>> the Federal 7th Circuit Court in Wisconsin, 1984.
>>> the Federal District Court for Southern New York, 1994.
>>> the New York Court of Appeals, 1996.
>>> the New York State Supreme Court, 1996.
>>> the U.S. Supreme Court, 1997.
>>> the Tennessee State Supreme Court.
>>> the Federal 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, 1996.
>>> the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.
>>> the U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh District, 1996.
>>> the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago, 1996.
>>>
>>> The United States Supreme Court has refused to hear challenges to
>> those
>>> rulings, or to change or over-turn those lower court decisions. By
>> letting
>>> them stand, the Supreme Court has made them the law of the land.
>>>
>>> But there is one very important exception to that statement -- the
>> Griffin
>>> v. Coughlin decision, from the New York State Court of Appeals, 1996,
>> was
>>> heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1997.
>>>
>>> In Griffin v. Coughlin, the prison inmate David Griffin complained
>> that
>>> state prison officials in 1991 told David Griffin, a self-described
>> atheist
>>> with a history of drug abuse, that in order to be eligible for
>> expanded
>>> family visitation privileges, including conjugal visits, he would have
>> to
>>> attend a prison rehabilitation program patterned after AA's 12-step
>> model.2
>>>
>>> Griffin, then a prisoner at the Shawangunk Correctional Facility in
>> Ulster
>>> County, refused to attend the program, contending that the 12-step
>> approach
>>> requires participants to express a belief in a "power greater than
>>> ourselves" and to "turn our will and our lives over to the care of God
>> as we
>>> understood him." These requirements, his lawsuit against the state
>>> contended, violate the First Amendment's mandated separation of church
>> and
>>> state.
>>>
>>> Griffin lost in two lower courts, but won in New York State's highest
>> court,
>>> the New York Court of Appeals.
>>>
>>> In Griffin v. Coughlin, Judge Levine, writing for the court's
>> majority,
>>> concluded that the AA program is devoted to proselytizing for a
>> religious
>>> belief. The court's conclusion was based on its reading of several
>> profiles
>>> of early AA members as they are set forth in the AA Big Book and the
>> AA
>>> Twelve and Twelve.
>>>
>>> Judge Levine said "While it is of course true that the primary
>> objective of
>>> A.A. is to enable its adherents to achieve sobriety, its doctrine
>>> unmistakably urges that the path to staying sober and to becoming
>> happily
>>> and usefully whole is by wholeheartedly embracing traditional theistic
>>> beliefs."
>>>
>>> From its review of AA literature, the majority concluded that the AA
>> Twelve
>>> Steps amount to a worship service and that the AA fellowship is
>> dedicated to
>>> converting alcoholics to a belief in a traditional deity. Accordingly,
>> the
>>> court found that, "The foregoing demonstrates beyond peradventure that
>>> doctrinally and as actually practiced in the 12-step methodology,
>> adherence
>>> to the A.A. fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and
>>> religious proselytization. Followers are urged to accept the existence
>> of
>>> God as a Supreme Being, Creator, Father of Light and Spirit of the
>>> Universe."
>>>
>>> When the U.S. Supreme Court heard the appeal, it sided with the
>> atheist
>>> convict who said the New York Department of Corrections' attempt to
>> link
>>> extra privileges for inmates with attendance at meetings modeled after
>>> Alcoholics Anonymous violated the constitutionally mandated separation
>> of
>>> church and state.3
>>>
>>> On November 14, 1999 the U.S. Supreme Court refused to overturn, thus
>>> allowed to stand, a ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second
>>> Circuit ordering that forced attendance at Narcotics Anonymous
>> meetings end
>>> immediately, because it was a violation of Freedom of Religion. The
>> U.S.
>>> Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and the high courts of the
>> states
>>> of Tennessee and New York have also made the same ruling.
>>>
>>> -- quoted from http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-spirrel.html
>>>
>
>
>> you clearly have your opinions, as i have mine..........................
>> with the help of AA and my HP i will celebrate 23yrs of sobriety in
>> august.
>> AA has helped me to have a whole new life.
>
> Sorry, I really botched the first line. What I meant to say was the
> opinions of the courts are what matter, because they make the laws. Then I
> quoted someone else's summary of many court decisions where AA was ruled
> to be a religion. Note no court anywhere has ever ruled AA is not a
> religion.
>
> I'm glad AA has helped you have a whole new life. The steps work well for
> the lucky few for whom they work well. But what I care about is for every
> one of you, there are 20 who aren't helped. That's the tragedy of AA's
> religious program.
>

"wozza" <wozza96@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42ba8916$0$24005$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>> "wozza" <wozza96@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:42b68d46$0$13943$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>> "rosie read n' post" <readandpost@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:iuite.16267$lI2.7345@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>>> > RELIGION is for those who are afraid of hell..................
>>> > SPIRITUALITY is for those who have been there!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > imo, AA is not a religion.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, your opinion counts for zilch, but the opinions of are
>> worth
>>> taking notice.
>>>
>>> A.A. claims that it is a "spiritual" organization, and not
>> "religious", and
>>> not a religion, but there is no great difference between the words
>>> "religious" and "spiritual." The distinction is artificial -- just
>> another
>>> deceptive word game.
>>>
>>> In the case of Grandberg v. Ashland County, a 1984 Federal 7th Circuit
>> Court
>>> ruling concerning judicially-mandated A.A. attendance, the court said:
>>>
>>> Alcoholics Anonymous materials and the testimony of the witness
>> established
>>> beyond a doubt that religious activities, as defined in constitutional
>> law,
>>> were a part of the treatment program. The distinction between religion
>> and
>>> spirituality is meaningless, and serves merely to confuse the issue.
>>> -- Wisconsin's District Judge John Shabaz
>>>
>>> All of these courts have ruled that Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion
>> or
>>> engages in religious activities:
>>>
>>> the Federal 7th Circuit Court in Wisconsin, 1984.
>>> the Federal District Court for Southern New York, 1994.
>>> the New York Court of Appeals, 1996.
>>> the New York State Supreme Court, 1996.
>>> the U.S. Supreme Court, 1997.
>>> the Tennessee State Supreme Court.
>>> the Federal 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, 1996.
>>> the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.
>>> the U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh District, 1996.
>>> the Federal Appeals Court in Chicago, 1996.
>>>
>>> The United States Supreme Court has refused to hear challenges to
>> those
>>> rulings, or to change or over-turn those lower court decisions. By
>> letting
>>> them stand, the Supreme Court has made them the law of the land.
>>>
>>> But there is one very important exception to that statement -- the
>> Griffin
>>> v. Coughlin decision, from the New York State Court of Appeals, 1996,
>> was
>>> heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1997.
>>>
>>> In Griffin v. Coughlin, the prison inmate David Griffin complained
>> that
>>> state prison officials in 1991 told David Griffin, a self-described
>> atheist
>>> with a history of drug abuse, that in order to be eligible for
>> expanded
>>> family visitation privileges, including conjugal visits, he would have
>> to
>>> attend a prison rehabilitation program patterned after AA's 12-step
>> model.2
>>>
>>> Griffin, then a prisoner at the Shawangunk Correctional Facility in
>> Ulster
>>> County, refused to attend the program, contending that the 12-step
>> approach
>>> requires participants to express a belief in a "power greater than
>>> ourselves" and to "turn our will and our lives over to the care of God
>> as we
>>> understood him." These requirements, his lawsuit against the state
>>> contended, violate the First Amendment's mandated separation of church
>> and
>>> state.
>>>
>>> Griffin lost in two lower courts, but won in New York State's highest
>> court,
>>> the New York Court of Appeals.
>>>
>>> In Griffin v. Coughlin, Judge Levine, writing for the court's
>> majority,
>>> concluded that the AA program is devoted to proselytizing for a
>> religious
>>> belief. The court's conclusion was based on its reading of several
>> profiles
>>> of early AA members as they are set forth in the AA Big Book and the
>> AA
>>> Twelve and Twelve.
>>>
>>> Judge Levine said "While it is of course true that the primary
>> objective of
>>> A.A. is to enable its adherents to achieve sobriety, its doctrine
>>> unmistakably urges that the path to staying sober and to becoming
>> happily
>>> and usefully whole is by wholeheartedly embracing traditional theistic
>>> beliefs."
>>>
>>> From its review of AA literature, the majority concluded that the AA
>> Twelve
>>> Steps amount to a worship service and that the AA fellowship is
>> dedicated to
>>> converting alcoholics to a belief in a traditional deity. Accordingly,
>> the
>>> court found that, "The foregoing demonstrates beyond peradventure that
>>> doctrinally and as actually practiced in the 12-step methodology,
>> adherence
>>> to the A.A. fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and
>>> religious proselytization. Followers are urged to accept the existence
>> of
>>> God as a Supreme Being, Creator, Father of Light and Spirit of the
>>> Universe."
>>>
>>> When the U.S. Supreme Court heard the appeal, it sided with the
>> atheist
>>> convict who said the New York Department of Corrections' attempt to
>> link
>>> extra privileges for inmates with attendance at meetings modeled after
>>> Alcoholics Anonymous violated the constitutionally mandated separation
>> of
>>> church and state.3
>>>
>>> On November 14, 1999 the U.S. Supreme Court refused to overturn, thus
>>> allowed to stand, a ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second
>>> Circuit ordering that forced attendance at Narcotics Anonymous
>> meetings end
>>> immediately, because it was a violation of Freedom of Religion. The
>> U.S.
>>> Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and the high courts of the
>> states
>>> of Tennessee and New York have also made the same ruling.
>>>
>>> -- quoted from http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-spirrel.html
>>>
>
>
>> you clearly have your opinions, as i have mine..........................
>> with the help of AA and my HP i will celebrate 23yrs of sobriety in
>> august.
>> AA has helped me to have a whole new life.
>
> Sorry, I really botched the first line. What I meant to say was the
> opinions of the courts are what matter, because they make the laws. Then I
> quoted someone else's summary of many court decisions where AA was ruled
> to be a religion. Note no court anywhere has ever ruled AA is not a
> religion.
>
> I'm glad AA has helped you have a whole new life. The steps work well for
> the lucky few for whom they work well. But what I care about is for every
> one of you, there are 20 who aren't helped. That's the tragedy of AA's
> religious program.
>