Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:JISdnVo556T3Qi3fRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> stuart wrote:
>
> > Ken Ragge <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:QPKdnTzeFP96Mi3fRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> >
> >>stuart wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"The Glass Prison" <glassprison51@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:1118856383.594986.47950@f14g2000cwb.google groups.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I may take you up on that Ken. I briefly looked at "morerevealed" and
> >>>>perhaps I may tell my stories. They involve my life nearly taken twice
> >>>>at both Betty Ford and Hazelden after being drug-free for over two
> >>>>weeks each time. These things shouldn't happen at what they call "a
> >>>>safe place". It makes me shudder and cry when I think about it. I
still
> >>>>have my written diaries and witnesses and it makes a good story. I'll
> >>>>try if I can (always wanted to), but sometimes it's better to put the
> >>>>past behind you.
> >>>>
> >>>>Of course, I am angry at myself and not because I made poor decisions
> >>>>that got me to treatment. What happened to me there was not my fault.
> >>>>It's like someone being admitted to a hospital for a drug overdose and
> >>>>the next day, they slip on a mopped wet floor and break their leg. Who
> >>>>is to blame for this? The fine upstanding hospital or the low-life
> >>>>junkie just for being there? I know who society and certainly the
> >>>>state, judge, jury, and insurance companies would choose.
> >>>>
> >>>>I still have ongoing issues and who better to let my anger out at than
> >>>>the individuals who nearly took my life twice, and then tried to "blow
> >>>>it off" with a fairy tale (the 12-step program). They were the people
> >>>>(and places) that I trusted in, wanted to love and believe in. But
> >>>>tragedy struck, twice, and I saw everything was disguised.
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks for your understanding response.
> >>>>
> >>>>PS> I am a raised Roman Catholic, driven by fear and guilt. Need I say
> >>>>more?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Sure, sounds like you are still living with a painful past, ie still
> >
> > unwell.
> >
> >>>Best of luck in your future...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>What does "unwell" mean? Do you think there is something wrong with
> >>being angry when you've been seriously fucked over? Do you think Rosa
> >>Parks had it all wrong and should have just "turned it over" and sat at
> >>the back of the bus?
> >>
> >>Ken Ragge
> >
> >
> > Unwell means "not healthy" Ken
> >
> > Well Ken, now you are gonna get my professional opinion on what you have
> > described as a mental health issue.
>
> Stuart,
>
> "Not healthy" and "a mental health issue"? Interesting and expected.
>
> > No, there's absolutely nothing "wrong"
> > with being angry when you've been seriously fucked over.
>
> No, there isn't.
>
> > There is indeed
> > something terribly unhealthy with constantly wasting a lot of one's
'mental
> > capacity' on a past problem.
>
> Always? You like "Acceptance" from the Big Book?
> Back to the issue at hand, who do you know is wasting a lot of one's
> capacity on a past problem? Are you old enough to remember the Civil
> Rights movement of the 60s? Were these angry people who kept repeatedly
> taking to the streets wasting a lot of capacity? And if not, why not?
> Which wrongs is it okay to use your anger to address and which ones
> aren't okay?

Granted there are exeptions. But in the case of AA, most are there
voluntarily, except the VERY few (in Canada) who are coerced by the court.
The civil rights movement dealt with civil wrongs or torts. This would be an
acceptable exception. You argue that the dismantling of AA is in the same
category?
>
>
> > Firstly, it hurts. Secondly, it seriously
> > detracts from one's ability to function in the present moment,
denigrating
> > one's earning power, one's enjoyment of life, and one's usefulness to
> > oneself and one's friends and family. The pain of the past is being
> > constantly re-introduced to the present moment. Is that healthy? It's
like
> > continuing to pick at a scab...
>
> Actually, it doesn't necessarily hurt to be angry. It certainly hurts
> when one is very angry and struggling to repress it. Do you know what
> repression is? Do you know what the old term "passive aggressive"
> refers to?
Yes Ken. Psych 101 1972

>
> > I don't know a single person who has not been seriously fucked over once
or
> > twice. Healthy people deal with it as best as they can, people who are
not
> > emotionally healthy can't or won't.
>
> And just how is "the best they can"?

A healthy person physically gets over a cold, or even surgery. A healthy
individual emotionally learnes to repair the damage of an emotional harm.
Now in both instances they may need help. A person who has been harmed
emotionally and has healed from the damage just doesn't stand out like those
who don't. if you arguing that those who don't need a forum, fine. But
denigrating members of a lay support group is like hitting children to
express anger.
You can take excpetion to the 12 steps, however, that's perfectly fine with
me also.


>
> > Sorry to tell you that we are not all equally healthy either physically
or
> > mentally.
>
> So is this mentally not healthy referring to brain disease? Is that it?
> If someone kicks you in the teeth you are short on the mental health
> end until you make amends or something?
>
> > Reliance upon God is a source of strength for some, but not for others.
No
> > one has the right to tell another what will work, or not work for their
> > mental well-being. Your position is predicated on all sorts of beliefs,
> > which you can neither prove nor disprove, just like my own beliefs.
>
> There is one major difference. I don't support and proseletyze for an
> organization that forces their view on millions of others. Moreover, I
> don't decide just which of my thoughts are from God or "spiritual" and
> which ones aren't.

Neither do I, but you on the other hand seem to ridicule those with
spiritual beliefs.

>
> Modern day Step groups ideas on anger originate with the Oxford Group.
> Lois Wilson, Bill Wilson's wife tells in her book about being furious
> with Bill. She knew it was wrong and couldn't understand the response
> because her mother taught her about anger by locking her in a closet
> when she was angry.
>
> Now, you can boast of the wonders of their methods as passed down in the
> 12 Step literature and by word of mouth all you wish. However, I see
> problems with a "spiritual program" that originates with a man who
> announced "Thank Heaven for Adolph Hitler" and I think it was Goebbels
> that he boasted about being a great guy.
>
> When a group is patently religious and denies it, it is one clue that
> they can not be accepted at face value.
>
> > Your long history of AA-bashing is either extremely unhealthy, or is
> > motivated by profit or some other pathological need IMO.
> > I would never spend the kind of energy you spend on such a controversial
and
> > unimportant issue.
>
> Did you find out what is important and what is not through your Step
> work? Did that come from the promised "conciuos contact" with God?

Actually, most of my points today were not inspired by AA teachings, I had
Elkhart Tolle in mind, from "The Power of Now"
>
> Ken Ragge
>
> >>http://www.morerevealed.com
> >
> >
> >