"Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:fNednXmO0N1S1zLfRVn-og@comcast.com...
> dan mcgown wrote:
>
>> "Ken Ragge" <ken@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:NO6dnU0QCKUNtjLfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>
<snip>

> Dan,
>
> If I am to get you right, if I am to take you at your word, you don't care
> if the leaders of the 12-Step "fellowship" you support (e.g. by carrying
> the message, attacking critics) conspires with the courts to get
> government coercion into your relgious group, you just don't care.
>
> Of course, being a good 12-Stepper, with your "concious contact with God"
> and all that from working the Steps, you have no concern whatsoever with
> the First Amendmant, freedom of relgion, freedom of association and such
> trivialites.
>
> Ken Ragge
> http://www.morerevealed.com

Your logic is as bad as your spelling and that is atrocious. I don't
support the "12 step leaders." I don't even know who they are. I have
never made a blanket endorsement of the AA organization. I have "carried
the message" that working the 12 steps has been good for me but I have also
"carried the message" that if something else works for you then do it and
tell us about it.
The main thing is that I don't attack people who are merely critics of
AA. I do criticize people who merely attack AA, if you are capable of
seeing the difference. You are on a different plane from simple critics.
You spread dogmatic, unthinking bile and vitriol. If AA's success rate
soared to 99%, instead of being glad that people were stopping drinking, you
would be angry that it was AA doing it.
I am a skeptic. I don't swallow all of the AA dogma. I don't get as
much out of meetings as some claim to get. I don't buy into the tie to
religion. ***BUT*** I have never seen any of the coercive crap that you
blather about except for the fact that some courts will require meetings as
part of probation.
Guess what, stud -- criminal sanctions, whether jail or probation are
supposed to be coercive. That's what criminal sanctions are for. They are
also supposed to be tailored to try to rehabilitate the criminal. If a
judge has a repeat DUI offender where do you expect the judge to send him?
To a bar? Or do you just want the judge to waive his finger sternly and
say: "Just say no to drink."
All that I have ever seen you do in here is attack AA. Okay, take it
as read that AA is flawed. Stop the ranting about AA and tell us how you
think the problem should be solved. -- and hey, if you don't have an
alternative solution to offer then shut the hell up.