Dan McGown wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>Chris,
>>
>>Do you have _any_ input from non-Steppers? One of the prime
>>objectives of cults and authoritarian organizations during early
>>recruiting is to separate them from and/or discredit outside sources of
>>information.
>>
>>You might get pissed at the suggestion, but your "therapist" is
>>probably what Steppers refer to as a "two-hatter," meaning
>>she is a group member and uses her position as therapist to
>>recruit.
>>
>>Has she suggested you get involved with any people other than
>>Steppers? Has she accused you of "isolating" and only suggested
>>the groups as a place to socialize? Does she build your confidence
>>in your ability to abstain?
>>
>>Locking yourself away is only going to make you lonely, and
>>make drinking/drugging seem more attractive, if only to break
>>the isolation. Moreover, if your social group narrows itself
>>to only group members, you will be put in a position of great
>>vulnerability when they begin putting on more intense pressure
>>to adopt "spiritual principles."
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>Yes, they are very open and accepting and will embrace you
>>openly. They are very eager to assist. However, with time,
>>you will be more and more pressured to adopt their "spiritual
>>principles" and be further and further removed from the rest of
>>the world.
>>
>>When these loving, accepting, eager to assist people begin
>>pushing you to work the Steps, and pray, and etc. if you should
>>try to stand your ground, you will be pushed into total
>>isolation. While they are unlikely to directly attack, they will
>>shun, they will focus their shares on someone who, "just
>>by coincidence" happens to have the same independent thoughts you have,
>>etc., and etc. AA friends can disappear overnight if one
>>dares have any autonomy after the "honeymoon period." I would
>>wager that already, your therapist turns your questioning of
>>the Program into a discussion of what might be wrong with you.
>>It is not wrong to have questions.
>>
>>There is an e-mail group of over 1200 people who are ex-Steppers
>>on Yahoo. A very large percentage of them are gay and have gone through
>>many of the issues you have and are going through. Might I suggest
>>that you try subscribing and maybe listening in a little. It
>>might be quite a revelation for you. The name of the group is
>>12-Step-Free.
>>
>>Ken Ragge
>
>
> Ken,
> I continue to be surprised at the extreme nature of your views on AA
> and at the way that you insert them into each and every discussion.

Dan,

I'm surprised that you are suprised at someone expressing views critical
of AA on a thread that is on alt.recovery.from-12-steps.

Please
> note that Chris had already said that he wasn't going to AA and didn't
> intend to do so. There is no reason to offer him one of your aluminum foil
> hats to keep out the AA brain control microwaves.
> Even if he went to some meetings it would not be necessary. I go to
> one meeting a week. It's the one that I am trying to revive at the Pride
> Center. No one tries to draw me into other meetings. No one shuns me for
> disagreeing with them. If they did, it would be self defeating. I would
> choose to be shunned by someone who would choose to shun me.

You are a grouper working his 12th Step very admirably, trying to
resuscitate a meeting. Why would they shun you? What do you think
groupers are _supposed_ to do?

If you were to announce with resolution that you don't believe in AA
anymore and were going to go to SMART or anywhere else, then there are
grounds for some serious shunning.

> What in the world happened to you that started you on this crusade?

What makes you so sure something happened to me? Why is every criticism
of God's Program somehow turned around on the critic? Where does this
"Kill the messenger" philosophy come from? No need to answer.

Since you are so not afraid of being shunned by the Groupers, why not
let's discuss coercion into the Step group.

The groups are a program of attraction, not promotion. Since this is
so, and AA is beyond criticism, can you explain this page from the
offical AA website?

http://www.aa.org/default/en_pdfs/mg...pwithcourt.pdf

Ken Ragge
http://www.morerevealed.com



> Dan
>
>